im sure this is a bit of a touchy subject but who and y r u voting for whom ur voting for in these primaries?
just to get a discussion going
Voting in the Democratic Primary in Vermont. Picking Sanders, not only because he's our Senator, but I just don't trust Hillary... at all....
I like Rubio and Sanders. If neither win and if it's between Trump and Clinton... I like Trump.
its very sad that this is how things come to. hilary is a liar, trump is a racist, rubio and cruz r both gun toting anti-abortionists and the only person who makes sense is doc brown sanders.
i WILL be putting my vote for sanders in hopes of stopping clinton from stealing the democratic nomination with the help of the establishment and super delegates. if she wins, its just proof that our votes mean nothing.
Hillary Clinton comes across to me as one of the least sincere people in modern times. Everything she does is politically motivated, including standing by her misogynistic husband and sweeping his alleged sexual assaults under the carpet.
And then on the other side of the tracks we have a man who is so quick to put down Mexicans, Muslims, women, but needs to do more research before he forms an opinion on the KKK.
Cruz's religious zealous is being overlooked because of the clown I mentioned above.
I honestly dread to think what will happen if Sanders doesn't win.
I am a Sanders supporter...and heavily considering not voting for Hillary if she takes the democratic nomination anyway. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.
I can't see how anyone could support Trump in any way. If America wasn't an international laughing stock already, Trump will seal the deal. Absolute racist, sexist, bigoted, failed business man, lunatic. I would genuinely fear for the planet if he became POTUS.
Well. looks like our worst fears are still on course... Trump vs Clinton. UGH... viva "democracy"
I've been outraged by politicians many times, but I've never been as outright embarrassed by one as I am right now Chris Christie, now Donald's little BITCH!
y would u say that? cuz hilary won more states? u mean those southern states that will go to the republicans anyways during the general election? bernie won 3/4 IMPORTANT swing states by a HUGE margin while hilary won mass by 3 points. it is not over
Mathematically it's over.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/9d/9d5d40b79e18979c505de59e72f4a787a4696745b36d01eace62e8bc7a757384.jpg)
Hillary might be a politician, thus susceptible to many flaws, and she may not be the best choice, but she's a million times better than Trump.
Trump's entire campaign is built on hatred and lies. That's not even me trying to be funny. It's actually built entirely of hatred and lies. An utterly vile human being.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXEglx-or6k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXEglx-or6k)
My dream scenario...the Republicans screw Trump so hard that he runs as an independent....and than Bernie sees the opportunity and also runs as an independent.
the protests r getting out of hand.
on 1 hand, trump has the freedom of speech to do his rallies and push forward to "become president"
on the other hand, the people protesting also have a right to not be called the racist rhetoric thats been coming from those rallies. they also have the right to freedom of speech to protest these rallies.
i get both sides of this and it needs to be understood that as long as it stays NON VIOLENT then none of it should be stopped. the second it gets violent is when things need to end. NOBODY should be using violence to get their point across. that being said, i blame trump. he specifically yells hateful things to incite his supporters to turn to violence when things get tough. he may have freedom of speech but he doesnt have freedom FROM his speech. even tho he can say wat he likes, it doesnt mean that he is free from the consequences of wat he says.
if he thinks people wont fight back after the bullshit he spews, then he has another thing coming. if for some reason he wins the whole thing, be ready to see him assassinated. bet me.......i love how he set back this country a few hundred years.
You really shouldn't talk about what you said in your last paragraph knux.
But aside from that, I agree.
The guy from Humans of NY hit the hail on the head in his open letter.... protesting Trump is not a political stance anymore it is a moral one.
I watched a video of all the things he said that incites or encourages violence. He wants to get back to the "good old days" which in his mind seems to consist of mob mentality.
This has become a very scary time for this nation.
all im sayin is, back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's, there were political leaders that the establishment didnt like so they took things into their own hands and made assassinations. i just see it happening again this time around with trump or potentially hilary. assuming she isnt indicted first. but thats just comin from a conspiracy nut.....
I just voted in Ohio. A lot of people who normally vote Democrat voted Republican instead just to vote against Trump. But I think doing that hurt Bernie's numbers in Ohio as Clinton won easily.
ok so here we r and close to the end of the primaries. trump is the last republican standing, clinton is being named, "the presumptive nominee" even tho the super delegates have YET to vote and the media is yelling at the top of their lungs that shes already won; not to mention the impending INDICTMENT that is soon to be taking place, and bernie sanders is hoping the super delegates open their eyes by the time july 25th comes around.
i think its sickening that the media is already calling it for hillary. their basically saying that california, nj, north and south dakota and new mexico doesnt matter since she "already has it". its pathetic.....
Quote from: Knuckles on June 07, 2016, 12:19:03 PM
ok so here we r and close to the end of the primaries. trump is the last republican standing, clinton is being named, "the presumptive nominee" even tho the super delegates have YET to vote and the media is yelling at the top of their lungs that shes already won; not to mention the impending INDICTMENT that is soon to be taking place, and bernie sanders is hoping the super delegates open their eyes by the time july 25th comes around.
i think its sickening that the media is already calling it for hillary. their basically saying that california, nj, north and south dakota and new mexico doesnt matter since she "already has it". its pathetic.....
To be fair, she has hit the threshold needed to win the nomination.
Quote from: J-Reb on June 07, 2016, 02:37:02 PM
To be fair, she has hit the threshold needed to win the nomination.
no she hasnt, the super delegates have NOT voted yet til next month therefore she hasnt hit anything. the fact that the media is already declaring her the winner will make people not come out to vote.
Face the music. She's gonna win.
not when shes indicted
Quote from: Knuckles on June 07, 2016, 05:30:54 PM
not when shes indicted
that not going to happen , it hard to accept I understand your feelings. But she is going to be the Dem Nom. quite frankly , she much better , way better than Trump.
what we need is to pull together, mend fences and make sure Trump does not win...
im sorry but i will not give that lying corporatist bitch my vote
Quote from: Black Death on June 07, 2016, 07:18:10 PM
that not going to happen , it hard to accept I understand your feelings. But she is going to be the Dem Nom. quite frankly , she much better , way better than Trump.
what we need is to pull together, mend fences and make sure Trump does not win...
Way better than Trump?
It really comes down to which flavor turd you like more: toothpaste and orange juice or well, actual turd.
Quote from: J-Reb on June 07, 2016, 07:47:04 PM
Way better than Trump?
It really comes down to which flavor turd you like more: toothpaste and orange juice or well, actual turd.
well said, 2 sides of the same coin
Quote from: Black Death on June 07, 2016, 07:18:10 PM
that not going to happen , it hard to accept I understand your feelings. But she is going to be the Dem Nom. quite frankly , she much better , way better than Trump.
what we need is to pull together, mend fences and make sure Trump does not win...
I don't buy that shit. I have no intentions of voting for her. Being marginally better than Trump is not an acceptable qualification for president of the United States.
Guess I'll have to start reading up on the libertarian candidate.
The DNC has disenfranchised voters from the beginning, calling the race now is just another way to do it.
Is refusal to vote for Hilary going to play into Trumps hands?
I can't see any other candidate getting anywhere near enough votes to challenge those two
Please America, do not vote Donald Trump as your president.
Quote from: Dorling on June 08, 2016, 05:42:09 AM
Please America, do not vote Donald Trump as your president.
This.
If Hillary picks Bernie as her VP, does it make it better?
I'm voting Trump.
Quote from: Jon on June 08, 2016, 07:08:48 AM
I'm voting Trump.
Some men just want to watch the world burn. Literally.
Rob, do you have any idea how bad the alternative is?
Trump is despicable, but everyone knows it, his brand of buffoonery is out in the open.
The alternative is much more subtle and sinister. So much so I don't want to go into to much detail in public. I don't have that same paranoid fear with trump.
There's stuff you can look up that does not get much mainstream coverage.
Quote from: Rob on June 08, 2016, 07:35:52 AM
Some men just want to watch the world burn. Literally.
I'm glad you're not American and have no vote.
Quote from: Drama Queen on June 08, 2016, 08:57:07 AM
Rob, do you have any idea how bad the alternative is?
Trump is despicable, but everyone knows it, his brand of buffoonery is out in the open.
The alternative is much more subtle and sinister. So much so I don't want to go into to much detail in public. I don't have that same paranoid fear with trump.
There's stuff you can look up that does not get much mainstream coverage.
im sorry but i agree. im willing to even venture a wild guess that trump will choose bernie as VP (whether he accepts it is another conversation) just to spite hilary and it would be very interesting. somebody needs to keep him in check; id rather it be bernie.
im also willing to guess that trump is there as a ringer for hilary.
Yeah... Trump Vs. Every other world leader. I smell PPV buys...
Quote from: Jon on June 08, 2016, 09:03:48 AM
I'm glad you're not American and have no vote.
Me too. I'd hate to be part of the reason Trump got elected...
Quote from: Rob on June 08, 2016, 09:53:23 AM
Me too. I'd hate to be part of the reason Trump got elected...
Better that than the people who would rather elect Hilary.
Quote from: Jon on June 08, 2016, 09:55:05 AM
Better that than the people who would rather elect Hilary.
They're both psychopaths.
Quote from: Rob on June 08, 2016, 09:56:44 AM
They're both psychopaths.
I didn't say Trump was a great candidate. But Hilary in office scares the living shit out of me.
Quote from: Jon on June 08, 2016, 09:59:08 AM
I didn't say Trump was a great candidate. But Hilary in office scares the living shit out of me.
What if Hilary selected Bernie to be her VP?
It wouldn't surprise me if she did that Rob. It would be yet another politically motivated insincere gesture in a string of many. It won't stop her doing what she always does behind the scenes.
Quote from: Rob on June 08, 2016, 10:00:03 AM
What if Hilary selected Bernie to be her VP?
I don't like Bernie's socialism views either.
Quote from: Drama Queen on June 08, 2016, 10:08:42 AM
politically motivated insincere gesture in a string of many
So, she's a politician, then? 'Cos, y'know, they all do that...
Quote from: Jon on June 08, 2016, 10:20:02 AM
I don't like Bernie's socialism views either.
In a perfect world, who would you want to be elected President
Yes bam. Please don't cherry pick one thing I said and make that the focus of why I'm not voting for her.
You are quite frankly insulting me if you think I'm so naive as to think that other politicians don't do that.
I am not fully American yet and I don't want to talk about certain things in public.
Notice I don't have the same fear bashing trump.
There are many reasons not to vote for the person in question, but for the most important ones you have to dig a bit deeper than mainstream media.
Quote from: Rob on June 08, 2016, 10:43:25 AM
In a perfect world, who would you want to be elected President
I wanted Rubio.
Quote from: Dorling on June 08, 2016, 05:42:09 AM
Please America, do not vote Donald Trump as your president.
this 100% ... I understand your reasons for not wanting her in and quite frankly I wish they had more choice on the DEM side ... but at the moment, compare to Trump , I pick her.
politics fucking hate it
Trump is more than a buffoon. He is dangerous, very dangerous. He stirs up hatred just because he can, just because he wants to.
Yes, Hilary is far from an ideal candidate - if I was American I'd be behind Bernie all day long - but aside from some of the 'sinister' stuff, you have to think about the general, day to day running of your country.
Donald Trump has, at no point, suggested any kind of policies. I've watched with interest. He thinks Muslims should be banned from entering your country. He thinks Global Warming is a hoax. He's racist, he treats women like dogshit. He would have no problem telling people in one city to go burn another one down.
But can he do fiscal, social, environmental policy? Can he keep your taps running and your wheels turning and your lights on? I have serious doubts. He's far too tangled up in his own lies to to even think about that stuff. I flat out hate the man.
I would probably dislike Hilary too, but I think she, unlike Trump, knows the consequences of seriously fucking up the country. Yes, she will make enemies. Yes, she will lie (they all do). Yes, she will stab other politicians in the back etc. She won't be a nice person. But I don't think she's going to bring in apartheid II or ruin your international relations with every country in the world. Trump has the very real potential to do that.
That's just my two scents. I made a similar long-winded post about UK politics on facebook yesterday and I'll tag this with the same caveat:
I don't care which way you vote - it's your right to choose. Just don't believe a single word any of them say. Do your own research. It will be easier to prove Trump a liar than Hilary I imagine, but that's neither her nor there.
Quote from: Drama Queen on June 08, 2016, 10:47:34 AM
Yes bam. Please don't cherry pick one thing I said and make that the focus of why I'm not voting for her.
You are quite frankly insulting me if you think I'm so naive as to think that other politicians don't do that.
I am not fully American yet and I don't want to talk about certain things in public.
Notice I don't have the same fear bashing trump.
There are many reasons not to vote for the person in question, but for the most important ones you have to dig a bit deeper than mainstream media.
Chill the fuck out mate, it was a joke. Just because you read it wrong and/or didn't find it funny doesn't mean that it wasn't a joke.
Fuck me, when did people get their knickers so tightly wound around here?
I'll drive Trudeau to the airport if you guys will take him ...
Quote from: Captain Metro on June 08, 2016, 11:23:49 AM
I'll drive Trudeau to the airport if you guys will take him ...
The socialist? I'll take him
Quote from: Captain Metro on June 08, 2016, 11:23:49 AM
I'll drive Trudeau to the airport if you guys will take him ...
I like the guy. Better than the chumps we have over here.
Sorry I misinterpreted bam.
Trudeau isn't good but he ain't horrible. I was hoping he'd get a minority government but alas, at least maybe him being in office can wake up the conservatives and bring them back to sound governing rather than American style political governance
Sometimes you have a choice between falling in cow shit, or falling in horse shit. At the end of the day, you're covered in shit, and only have a choice in the smell.
I've always been impartial here in Canada, didn't mind Harper and don't really mind Trudeau. He'll legalize marijuana and hopefully we can get some of that tax back like the massive success they've had in Colorado.
But in regards to these US Elections as a complete outsider, Trump has to be marginally better than Clinton right? The wall nonsense aside at least he's kinda challenging the status quo, whereas Hillary in comparison makes me think Trump isn't the most batshit person in America.
But yeah, either option old man Powers summed it up perfectly.
Challenging the status quo in an evil, bigoted, sexist way is not a good thing.
I simply wouldn't vote as all have glaring weaknesses. Trump is evil and the wall thing might be the most ludacris thing I've ever heard, Hillary is a pathological liar who to me seems like she's only running so she can be the first female president and is right there with Trump in terms of being evil (http://www.activistpost.com/2016/01/hillary-clinton-brags-about-getting-a-pedophile-off-the-hook.html (http://www.activistpost.com/2016/01/hillary-clinton-brags-about-getting-a-pedophile-off-the-hook.html)).
(https://i.imgflip.com/v59i9.jpg)
....yep.
I'd go Gary Johnson.
I voted for Bernie yesterday as a final f*ck you to Hillary.
I'll be voting for her in the fall because, while I do not think Trump believes half of the things he says, the mere fact that he said them, that he went so batshit Right crazy to get votes, makes him just as politically motivated as Hillary...
At least with Hillary I'll be voting for a party platform that more aligns with my politics.
Although if the Green Party had ballot access to all 50 states I would vote Jill Stein in a heartbeat.
Quote from: Captain Metro on June 08, 2016, 11:23:49 AM
I'll drive Trudeau to the airport if you guys will take him ...
for the love of all that is holy please do
Speaking as someone who is a bit unsure of American politics...
Can Bernie Sanders now run as an independent?
That would split the democratic vote, therby ensuring Trump wins.
Quote from: Mike Powers on June 08, 2016, 02:56:16 PM
That would split the democratic vote, therby ensuring Trump wins.
based on polling, he will regardless
Quote from: Knuckles on June 08, 2016, 02:57:38 PM
based on polling, he will regardless
I sure hope so.
Quote from: Knuckles on June 08, 2016, 02:57:38 PM
based on polling, he will regardless
lastest polling shows he fallen behind
Quote from: Jon on June 08, 2016, 03:06:56 PM
I sure hope so.
Why? (Other than your dislike of Hilary)
Quote from: secandido on June 08, 2016, 02:13:42 PM
I voted for Bernie yesterday as a final f*ck you to Hillary.
I'll be voting for her in the fall because, while I do not think Trump believes half of the things he says, the mere fact that he said them, that he went so batshit Right crazy to get votes, makes him just as politically motivated as Hillary...
At least with Hillary I'll be voting for a party platform that more aligns with my politics.
Although if the Green Party had ballot access to all 50 states I would vote Jill Stein in a heartbeat.
What does this mean? They are not able to run in some states? I don't understand.
Quote from: Jack on June 08, 2016, 02:44:36 PM
I've never liked the idea of voting for someone because they are a lesser evil. If the person I want to be president isn't available in the general election, then I'm not voting. I think it's a bad precedent to say "I guess I settle for this person."
Whether it's because they're the only option left or not, voting for someone is endorsing them and saying you agree with them.
If people stuck to their picks, whether it be Sanders or Rubio or Cruz or whoever, and didn't vote for Trump or Clinton just because they're 'what we're stuck with' then the turn out numbers would keep dropping and eventually the two parties would see that disenfranchisement is a real issue instead of what it is now, which is something people complain about but still turn up and vote anyways.
I agree completely. I hate it when people start lecturing about not voting or some people even act like voting for an outside candidate is "wasting your vote".
With this sort of mentality nothing will ever change. Ever.
Quote from: Rob on June 08, 2016, 02:48:29 PM
Speaking as someone who is a bit unsure of American politics...
Can Bernie Sanders now run as an independent?
Technically anyone can run as independent, but realistically, if you haven't got the endorsement from the Republicans or the Democrats you are completely ignored by mainstream media, have no campaign funding. You're not even invited to partake in the televised debates hosted by our "news" channels.
You are all but invisible. And I'm not sure how to interpret Dido's post that I quoted above, but it sounds even more restricted than what I've just described, according to him.
Thing is people HAVE to get together to change that... it won't happen overnight, but if the outsiders just get a few more votes each time the recognition will have to come.
People have to take a stand against having to chose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich every four years.
Quote from: Jon on June 08, 2016, 03:06:56 PM
I sure hope so.
so if bernie sanders ends up the dem nominee (out of pure luck) will u be voting him instead of trump? and why or why not.
Quote from: Mike Powers on June 08, 2016, 03:34:08 PM
Why? (Other than your dislike of Hilary)
That's pretty much it. lol
And any Republican candidate is going to support the military monetarily better than the Democrat party.
Quote from: Knuckles on June 08, 2016, 04:45:08 PM
so if bernie sanders ends up the dem nominee (out of pure luck) will u be voting him instead of trump? and why or why not.
Absolutely not. Bernie's views while are good in nature, are impractical. And I just don't agree with his socialism. He's a much better human than Trump. I guess I have a little faith that if Trump is elected, there will be enough people giving him sound advice to make the right decisions. And if by some off chance he goes bananas, that's what we have a congress for. To veto terrible decisions. Will it be somewhat of a circus with him in office... 99% likely. But it sure beats the alternative, IMO.
Quote from: Drama Queen on June 08, 2016, 04:04:01 PM
What does this mean? They are not able to run in some states? I don't understand.
I agree completely. I hate it when people start lecturing about not voting or some people even act like voting for an outside candidate is "wasting your vote".
With this sort of mentality nothing will ever change. Ever.
Technically anyone can run as independent, but realistically, if you haven't got the endorsement from the Republicans or the Democrats you are completely ignored by mainstream media, have no campaign funding. You're not even invited to partake in the televised debates hosted by our "news" channels.
You are all but invisible. And I'm not sure how to interpret Dido's post that I quoted above, but it sounds even more restricted than what I've just described, according to him.
Thing is people HAVE to get together to change that... it won't happen overnight, but if the outsiders just get a few more votes each time the recognition will have to come.
People have to take a stand against having to chose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich every four years.
If the candidate is polling at least at 15%, they will be invited to debate. Sanders would open at about 22%, he would be given stage time.
Quote from: Ty on June 08, 2016, 04:55:58 PM
If the candidate is polling at least at 15%, they will be invited to debate. Sanders would open at about 22%, he would be given stage time.
Huh... I read one article that Gary Johnson is polling in double digits despite nobody knowing anything about him... so it is feasible that he will be in the debates this year then!
Thanks for the into Ty!
Quote from: Jon on June 08, 2016, 04:52:14 PM
That's pretty much it. lol
And any Republican candidate is going to support the military monetarily better than the Democrat party.
Absolutely not. Bernie's views while are good in nature, are impractical. And I just don't agree with his socialism. He's a much better human than Trump. I guess I have a little faith that if Trump is elected, there will be enough people giving him sound advice to make the right decisions. And if by some off chance he goes bananas, that's what we have a congress for. To veto terrible decisions. Will it be somewhat of a circus with him in office... 99% likely. But it sure beats the alternative, IMO.
how is it impractical? asking for the rich who pay NO TAXES to actually pay them? we already pay for this stuff but r denied. instead we spend more on military (unnecessarily) than the next 14 countries combined. corporations receive TRILLIONS in tax breaks and more in corporate welfare then the middle class (or wats left of it) r stuck picking up the bill. republicans r to thank for this and corporatists like hilary use dems to keep things according to the status quo. its sad but lewis black said it best....
democrats: i have a really bad idea...
republicans: and i can make it shittier....
I just don't want the US to become the next in a long line of Trump businesses to file for bankruptcy.
Quote from: Drama Queen on June 08, 2016, 04:04:01 PM
What does this mean? They are not able to run in some states? I don't understand.
You have to fulfill certain requirements in each state to be placed on the ballot. I believe the Green Party is on the ballot in 22 states. They're hoping to get more soon.
In order to get federal funds for the campaign there's another hoop to jump through (something like 5% in the previous presidential election or similar).
Quote from: Jack on June 08, 2016, 07:40:47 PM
I don't think Trump is a wild or crazy as he is painted to be. I think he's actually very smart and calculating and is an amazing sales person. Basically saying what he knows will get him support, coverage, and votes. In a sense I believe he's figured out a way to hack the system and is taking advantage of it. While it may seem crazy, I think it's actually very smart. I put him next to people like Kim Kardasian and Kanye West (take that how you will) that many people dismiss as stupid, crazy, etc, but are actually getting everything they want by playing the system very well. While I'm not voting for Trump, I think he's very, very smart.
Yes exactly. We have the same kind of problem with a guy called Boris Johnson.
He plays up to the cameras in buffoonery and harmless wit but is actually very dangerous. A stupid man would not be in his position. It takes a very, very intelligent man to get to the position he and Trump are in.
Yes, both Trump and Boris Johnson are extremely smart. They make themselves stand out by not looking or acting like politicians. They provide an alternative to "Them politicians who lie and sneak and wheedle and don't represent us" and gullible people fall for it.
Y'know who else is smart? Littlefinger in Game Of Thrones. I wouldn't trust him to run my DnD game, let alone a bloody country.
Point is all the above mentioned aren't representing YOU. They are representing THEMSELVES. What they are doing is making you think they are a better alternative by acting the fool, the loud mouth, the guy down the pub. They are not. They will step on the face of anyone who doesn't earn an eight figure per annum income and convince you that they're acting in your interests.
http://justicegazette.org/bernie-defrauded-in-ca.html (http://justicegazette.org/bernie-defrauded-in-ca.html)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4x53O6kvHU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4x53O6kvHU)
Quote from: Knuckles on June 09, 2016, 10:54:53 AM
http://justicegazette.org/bernie-defrauded-in-ca.html (http://justicegazette.org/bernie-defrauded-in-ca.html)
Writers are responsible for fact-checking and the Justice Gazette takes no responsibility for or claims regarding the accuracy of news and information supplied by writers to this site. From their own website.
http://www.snopes.com/uncounted-california-ballots/ (http://www.snopes.com/uncounted-california-ballots/)
You really should question everything you read Knux. The article posted directly refutes the gazette post and breaks it down. I'm a Bernie supporter but this Bernie or bust or message is the wrong one to send. Hell I could tell from that article that more than half of the crap they said was false cause I get to live in sunny Southern California.
FUCK that wasnt even the rite article....mispost sorry pancho. ill see if i can find it again
None it matter. Congress is where the power is. Can't wait for Trump to get in and do nothing because Congress won't let him and then people will cry that Trump did nothing.
Either way you guys are going to miss Obama.
Quote from: Dorling on June 10, 2016, 10:25:08 AM
Either way you guys are going to miss Obama.
Think history will be kinder to him than the present was though I did have two big gripes with him about his raids on marijuana dispensaries and his increase in deportations
Can't please everyone all of the time. But in the face of all of the obstacles he's been confronted by, the numbers look good when it comes to economy, jobs, violent crimes etc.
When you consider Bush turned the most successful American economy in decades into 2 recessions, it ain't too shabby.
Quote from: Knuckles on June 10, 2016, 09:24:37 AM
FUCK that wasnt even the rite article....mispost sorry pancho. ill see if i can find it again
Nice backtrack.
Vote: KnucklesDefintiely scum.
Quote from: The TeeJ of Philly on June 10, 2016, 10:03:23 AM
None it matter. Congress is where the power is. Can't wait for Trump to get in and do nothing because Congress won't let him and then people will cry that Trump did nothing.
just like theyve done nothing the past 8 yrs, ur rite. although the president has executive actions and i highly doubt trump will go easy on not using them
If you live in a battleground state than you need to hold your nose and vote hillary, but if you don't it's not as big of a deal. Down ballot races are more important now. Find the progressive candidates and go support them.
You should never hold your nose and vote for any candidate, no matter where you live...
Your vote should go to whomever you believe is the best candidate for the job, not the lesser of two evils. Living in Vermont my vote means pretty much nothing either way, but I will not vote for Hillary or Trump.
While Hillary represents no progress, Trump represents anti-progress. It shouldn't be a difficult choice.
Quote from: T-Long on June 10, 2016, 10:36:15 PM
While Hillary represents no progress, Trump represents anti-progress. It shouldn't be a difficult choice.
no progress hurts us just as much as anti progress. not such an easy choice
You could always write in a vote for Bernie.
Quote from: Mike Powers on June 11, 2016, 04:19:54 PM
You could always write in a vote for Bernie.
Not voting is never the answer
Quote from: Mike Powers on June 11, 2016, 04:19:54 PM
You could always write in a vote for Bernie.
That's what I intend to do...
http://sourceplanet.net/politics/bernie-sanders-write-in-states-what-you-need-to-know/ (http://sourceplanet.net/politics/bernie-sanders-write-in-states-what-you-need-to-know/)
Some states don't allow a write-in on a general election. Check if yours does. Even if they do, they have to put in an application to do so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecHE2o9PlhM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecHE2o9PlhM)
Quote from: ¿PapaPancho? on June 11, 2016, 04:50:24 PM
Not voting is never the answer
^^
I mean you can vote for like Gary Johnson or Jill Stein, but by the time the general comes around Bernie votes are meaningless.
Do I wish Bernie won? More than anything. Am I willing to throw the election to the Republicans over it? Not when they are going to ruin my life I'm not. Not when they are going to ruin the lives of millions of people. There are very real consequences if Trump is elected, consequences that don't justify throwing a tantrum vote to a candidate who isn't on the ballot.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h21/chris_dorling/Screen%20Shot%202016-06-12%20at%2019.33.26_zps14tkoomh.png)
What a self serving prick.
But he doesn't want gun control!
"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope."
― George Carlin
fucking LOVE carlin
Yeah but the bigger part of his campaign was standing up to conservatives' anti-progress rhetoric more.
fbi director james comey just publicly announced that there will be no charges filed against the clintons. they just handed this election to trump....
Quote from: Knuckles on July 05, 2016, 01:02:59 PM
fbi director james comey just publicly announced that there will be no charges filed against the clintons. they just handed this election to trump....
What?
Quote from: Knuckles on July 05, 2016, 01:02:59 PM
fbi director james comey just publicly announced that there will be no charges filed against the clintons. they just handed this election to trump....
I fail to see how clinTon not being charged benefits trump
Quote from: Ty on July 05, 2016, 02:41:20 PM
I fail to see how clinTon not being charged benefits trump
^
people will look at this as more proof of how the system is corrupt and favors the rich and powerful and lean towards the guy who "arguably" will "fix" things. even tho he is worse they will gravitate his way.
they officially came out and said we found proof of illegal activity but wont be pursuing charges. they claim she was also negligent which people will also see as more proof she isnt fit to be president. people r fed up with the system and will watch this place burn rather than continue the status quo. we r totally fucked.
if only there was a candidate who wasnt on the payroll or corrupt........imagine that #feelthebern
I see where Knuckles is coming from with this, but ultimately I think Jack has the right of it. Very few on the fence with such divisive candidates.
As Jack said, people's minds are made up right now. This changes nothing.
On another note, another black man was murdered by the police.
Quote from: Knuckles on July 05, 2016, 03:59:49 PM
people will look at this as more proof of how the system is corrupt and favors the rich and powerful
How is that not Trump as well?
Quote from: Gravedigger on July 06, 2016, 10:42:04 PM
How is that not Trump as well?
cuz trump is looked at as anti-establishment, especially compared to hillary
Quote from: Justin on July 06, 2016, 09:10:13 AM
On another note, another black man was murdered by the police.
we no justin but that doesnt belong in this thread
Actually, I believe it does. The American justice system is a modern day form of slavery in the sense that it suppresses black people from being afforded equal rights and the ability to live a life full of freedom and liberty. Reform of the justice system should be a hot button topic for the candidates, but unfortunately it is not. But the disparity in sentencing white people versus black people is so noticeable yet nothing is done about it, I think it's a disgrace and something that needs to be addressed. And before you ask, "What does that have to do with another black man being killed by the police?", it has everything to do with it. Police don't fear white men when they pull them over for a busted headlight. But they fear a black man for a busted headlight and shoot him despite the man announcing he had a permit and was going for his wallet which the officer asked him to do.
fair enuff but again, it was something bernie sanders was looking to do in 1 of his platforms.
Quote from: Jack on July 07, 2016, 01:52:30 PM
I agree with Justin completely.
This should absolutely be a big issue going forward in the campaigns (should have already been one, but I digress).
Question to Justin (or anyone else) is what are some ways you would recommend reforming this system? (this is not challenging the thought, as I agree something needs to be done - Just thinking on my own I'm not sure how we can best go about it).
Obviously showing everyone a racial sensitivity video isn't enough, but firing every cop in the country is a bit over the top. So how should it be addressed? What should be done to help?
I'm guessing making people of all colors get equal punishments for equal crimes is an obvious one...but isn't that how it's 'technically' written into law already? How do we enforce this so why criminals and black criminals are sentenced fairly?
How do we protect people from police with bad intentions while also allowing good police to do such a difficult and dangerous job?
Again, I'm not asking these questions to challenge the premise of reform, because I believe it's obvious there needs to be reform, but what exactly should that reform look like?
I believe the worst thing that we can do as a people in situations like this is be vague when addressing things like this. It's it's easy to brush vague aside until the next crazy thing Trump says or the next Cecil the Lion gets killed. But if something specific is decided on and pushed for, by everyone, it's harder for those in charge to ignore or decline or take half measures on.
What would you LIKE to see candidates present as direct solutions to fixing this growing problem?
A very good question. For me, the most sensible way is to hold judges accountable. I believe this is something that can be tracked based on sentencing guidelines and the actual sentence terms that are given by a judge based on race and gender. Obviously there will be logistics that would need to be hammered out as far as additional staff and things of that nature to actually be able to track those statistics, but I believe it's the best way because at the end of the day it is the judges who are handing down the punishment. Giving the "Affluenza" Teen probation because he was too rich to know right from wrong when he killed people by running over them with a car as opposed to giving a black man 25 years for selling an ounce of marijuana is ridiculous. And there are more and more cases like this...take the Stanford student convicted of rape and compare it to the black football player at Vanderbilt that got convicted. It really is an outcry and proves the justice system is a sham.
dont forget that they shouldnt be taking so much time off when things need to get done. that goes double for congress and the house. so sick of hearing these people putting something off for a couple weeks or something so they can take a holiday off. the world doesnt stop for a holiday.
waits for Knuckles to implode
i dont want to live on this planet anymore.... :/
If you heard Clinton's speech she might as well been reading from Bernie's script though...
Bernie could lose and have a divided party leading to a Trump victory, or he could lose while trying to unite the party to defeat Trump. It's a no brainier really.
Quote from: Mike Powers on July 13, 2016, 04:29:25 PM
Bernie could lose and have a divided party leading to a Trump victory, or he could lose while trying to unite the party to defeat Trump. It's a no brainier really.
Exactly ^^.
As much I support Bernie for everything he stands for, from a political point of view he really had no other choice. There will be some supporters who will vote for Hillary because of it, but there will be some who won't vote for Hillary and will write-in Sanders on the ballot. While this will take votes away from Hillary it won't be enough to cause her to lose to Trump.
Quote from: Knuckles on July 12, 2016, 12:57:10 PM
i dont want to live on this planet anymore.... :/
I hear they're looking for people to settle Mars komrade.
Quote from: Jack on July 13, 2016, 04:58:18 PM
Unite a party that has basically been rallying against for being corrupt in it's voting process? What about the democratic party in the last 12 months has been something to stand behind (if you're a Bernie fan)?
As far as whether or not Trump gets a victory. If he gets most of the votes, he's earned it, won, and we should accept it. (the same way a Bernie fan should accept that he did not win).
At this point it is no longer about him winning, as he cannot. It is now about Trump not winning. Anyone who is a fan of Bernies has to understand that, while they may hate and disagree with Clinton, a Clinton Presidency is closer to their ideals than a Trump one could ever be.
From the outside looking in, and from a country where politics has gone stupid and nobody wants to run the country, Bernie endorsing Clinton is the best thing that could have happened in the circumstances.
I have faith that Bernie would not have done so without some pretty major assurances from Clinton about the inclusion of some of his key ideas.
Quote from: Mike Powers on July 13, 2016, 05:20:01 PM
At this point it is no longer about him winning, as he cannot. It is now about Trump not winning. Anyone who is a fan of Bernies has to understand that, while they may hate and disagree with Clinton, a Clinton Presidency is closer to their ideals than a Trump one could ever be.
If you're a Cruz or a Rubio fan, then Trump is closer ideologically to your values than Clinton is. The inverse is true if you're a Berine fan.
I'm not saying I like our system....it is far from perfect. Hell, it's far from adequate at this point. But at the end of the day, it is what it is. We're left with 3 choices - Clinton/Trump/Throwaway. If you write in you're candidates name (Bernie, Cruz...) then you're throwing you're vote away. Again, not saying I agree. I'm just stating the stark fact of the matter.
Yeah the two party system sucks, is not right, or representative of what an ideal system should be.
But just because the system sucks doesn't change reality.
There are real people who's lives will be ruined with a Trump presidency. Probably exponentially more than a Clinton presidency could ever ruin.
If you're considering throwing your vote away and allowing the possibility of Trump becoming president, then you were never a Bernie supporter to begin with. Bernie is the anti-thesis of TRUMP. Doing your part to allow a Trump presidency means you are willing to spit on every single thing you claim to like about Bernie.
Does that mean you have to vote Clinton? No, be smart about your vote. If you don't live in a battleground or swing state, you can probably safely vote for Jill Stein or another 3rd party candidate. (no writing in Bernie's name is not an acceptable alternative). If you do live in a battleground or swing state then you need to suck it up and vote for Clinton if you ever considered yourself a progressive.
That IS the reality of the situation, whether anyone likes it or not. It's not going to change just because you don't want to 'vote the lesser of two evils'. Guess what, that's exactly how our political system works, and it's not going to change overnight, and certainly NOT going to change in time for this election.
Well the reality of the situation is that it's not going to change by your refusal to participate in it. Change comes from within. Do you know how progressives are going to change the Democratic party? By forcing it to change, not refusing to participate.
I'm going to let you in on a secret. Party elites DON'T want you to participate. Why? Because you're a complicated voter and they are better off without your voice in the political process. So what you are claiming and doing right now is EXACTLY what they want. Refuse to participate and you are playing into the hands of the very political process you are against.
Politics are not like TV ratings. For party elites, the less people that participate, the better. That's why the rate of incumbency is incredibly high. That's why BOTH parties use voter suppression tactics. Because the less people participating in the political process, the easier it is for people to take advantage of it.
Every vote cast for Bernie in November is a win for the two-party system. It's a win for the status quo. Your refusal to participate in the system means the system wins.
I know you're upset about the political process, and I am too. The Democratic primary was an absolute farce, and I'm not defending it in any way. It needs to be changed. But you know what? Fighting WITHIN the system is what is going to change the party. It already has. Bernie's campaign was not a failure. In spite all of the obstacles put in place to prevent a candidate like him, look at what he did. Look at what he overcame. Do you know why he overcame those things? Because people decided to participate. And that is fucking scary to the political elite. We fucking scared them.
We scared them sooooo much that establishment clown Hillary Clinton is running on Bernie's platform now to appease us. We can do one of two things here. We can sit on our hands and accept it, or we can continue to put the pressure on the party and hold them accountable. They are fucking terrified about our voter participation. They are fucking terrified that our generation is coming for the party early.
So every time you and people like you go "this system is unfair, I'm not participating" it's a win for the system. Without continued pressure from the progressive movement Hillary is going to move back to the Neoliberal Shill she has always been.
Does that mean we have to vote for Hillary this time? Yeah, because we have no other choice. We don't have a choice in the sense that 'it'll always be like this' we don't have a choice in the sense "we want to change things, and this is the first unfortunate step'.
But this also means we kick DWZ out of congress and put Tim Casanova in her place. That also means we elect people like Zephyr Teachout, and other weirdly named candidates with ideals we believe in.
That doesn't mean we take our ball and go home. Because that's exactly what they want us to do.
So when I say things like 'vote Hillary if you have to'...that's about strategy. I also implied if you don't, because the outcome in your state is set in stone, you vote for a 3rd party candidate and get them ballot access and TV time. You tell all the polls that you support the 3rd party candidate so they can get on the debate stage.
We can do both. We can hold the line by electing Hillary, and we can set up the country for the future. What we can't do is allow someone to be elected who will override the minimal progress we have gained, who will plunge us into trade wars with other countries (maybe even real ones), who will persecute people based off of what they look like, who will disregard international agreements like the Paris climate one, and who campaigns on a platform of hate and rhetoric to be powered by voters who don't care enough about the political process to look past the hate and rhetoric and critically think about what they want.
Do you want to have a voice in the political process...or do you want to leave it only to the voters that party elites want controlling the political process? Because right now, that's how the system works. The system works on getting single-issue voters to the polls. The system is controlled by single-issue voters that don't care about politics or care about the consequences of their votes. Because that is how political elites want the system to function. They don't want you, Jack. They don't want me either.
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on July 14, 2016, 01:18:45 PM
I know you're upset about the political process, and I am too. The Democratic primary was an absolute farce, and I'm not defending it in any way. It needs to be changed. But you know what? Fighting WITHIN the system is what is going to change the party. It already has. Bernie's campaign was not a failure. In spite all of the obstacles put in place to prevent a candidate like him, look at what he did. Look at what he overcame. Do you know why he overcame those things? Because people decided to participate. And that is fucking scary to the political elite. We fucking scared them.
We scared them sooooo much that establishment clown Hillary Clinton is running on Bernie's platform now to appease us. We can do one of two things here. We can sit on our hands and accept it, or we can continue to put the pressure on the party and hold them accountable. They are fucking terrified about our voter participation. They are fucking terrified that our generation is coming for the party early.
So every time you and people like you go "this system is unfair, I'm not participating" it's a win for the system. Without continued pressure from the progressive movement Hillary is going to move back to the Neoliberal Shill she has always been.
Does that mean we have to vote for Hillary this time? Yeah, because we have no other choice. We don't have a choice in the sense that 'it'll always be like this' we don't have a choice in the sense "we want to change things, and this is the first unfortunate step'.
But this also means we kick DWZ out of congress and put Tim Casanova in her place. That also means we elect people like Zephyr Teachout, and other weirdly named candidates with ideals we believe in.
That doesn't mean we take our ball and go home. Because that's exactly what they want us to do.
So when I say things like 'vote Hillary if you have to'...that's about strategy. I also implied if you don't, because the outcome in your state is set in stone, you vote for a 3rd party candidate and get them ballot access and TV time. You tell all the polls that you support the 3rd party candidate so they can get on the debate stage.
We can do both. We can hold the line by electing Hillary, and we can set up the country for the future. What we can't do is allow someone to be elected who will override the minimal progress we have gained, who will plunge us into trade wars with other countries (maybe even real ones), who will persecute people based off of what they look like, who will disregard international agreements like the Paris climate one, and who campaigns on a platform of hate and rhetoric to be powered by voters who don't care enough about the political process to look past the hate and rhetoric and critically think about what they want.
Do you want to have a voice in the political process...or do you want to leave it only to the voters that party elites want controlling the political process? Because right now, that's how the system works. The system works on getting single-issue voters to the polls. The system is controlled by single-issue voters that don't care about politics or care about the consequences of their votes. Because that is how political elites want the system to function. They don't want you, Jack. They don't want me either.
... or you vote Trump and make America Great Again!
Quote from: Captain Metro on July 14, 2016, 01:38:31 PM
... or you vote Trump and make America Great Again!
define "great"?
cuz it seems to me trump wants it to be like the 50's where blacks were segregated and women couldnt do shit....plz clarify
Trump is a great example of why politics work (the way they do). He's just not being subtle about it. He's been a brilliant politician thus far. I know people like to say he and Bernie are two sides of the same coin but that's just not true. He's a status quo guy for sure. Why? Because his campaign is run off the backs of single issue voters, while at the same time demoralizing complicated voters. (though I'd argue that most of the Republican base are single issue voters and that's why the party works) I'm a bit thankful for Trump for exposing exactly what is wrong with the political process....though I remain terrified of his presidency.
Quote from: Knuckles on July 14, 2016, 01:46:50 PM
define "great"?
cuz it seems to me trump wants it to be like the 50's where blacks were segregated and women couldnt do shit....plz clarify
I'm sure he was making fun of Trump's campaign slogan.
And very well said Bone!
People did vote for who they wanted to....it was called the primaries. Clinton and Trump are who we're left with.
Quote from: Mike Powers on July 15, 2016, 03:00:07 PM
People did vote for who they wanted to....it was called the primaries. Clinton and Trump are who we're left with.
sept all the voter fraud and suppression....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnatbWKXgAAcSrZ.jpg)
When you see it...
What, TP?
The GOP wants a T in P, any sex appeal they may have is beyond me.
it looks like pence is going down on trump
Looks like a guy walking with a cane to me.
Also I'd like to criticize the typography, but at this point everything about the Trump campaign is a parody, why would this be any different?
Quote from: Knuckles on July 15, 2016, 03:15:24 PM
sept all the voter fraud and suppression....
Get over it ... seriously.
Quote from: Captain Metro on July 16, 2016, 01:47:32 PM
Get over it ... seriously.
really? r u that stupid? yes lets ignore the problem then when the next election happens we can see it all over again. that makes sense....
maybe u should "get over it"
Quote from: Knuckles on July 16, 2016, 07:01:21 PM
really? r u that stupid? yes lets ignore the problem then when the next election happens we can see it all over again. that makes sense....
maybe u should "get over it"
You're trying to tell me that somehow they were able to fraudulently create 4MM votes? That the 100+MM in money raised doesn't say that there are more people who think Hillary should represent the Democrats versus Bernie.
Bernie's politics do not work in America. They do not create wealth. They do not allow for a prosperous nation because you will not have state oil which has funded every socialist state that currently exists. I can not recall who it was that said it but "you can not create wealth by dividing it" and that is what Bernie has proposed to do at every turn (both on his economic and social agenda).
You don't have to like the result however complaining about it and burying your head in the sand does nothing to change it. If you are that into Bernie Sanders get out and help fund raise for him, go door knocking to inform voters. You will never get anywhere by simply pointing the finger of blame at other people - progress is made by being introspective and admitting faults.
[/micdrop]
Quote from: Captain Metro on July 17, 2016, 01:05:48 AM
You're trying to tell me that somehow they were able to fraudulently create 4MM votes? That the 100+MM in money raised doesn't say that there are more people who think Hillary should represent the Democrats versus Bernie.
Bernie's politics do not work in America. They do not create wealth. They do not allow for a prosperous nation because you will not have state oil which has funded every socialist state that currently exists. I can not recall who it was that said it but "you can not create wealth by dividing it" and that is what Bernie has proposed to do at every turn (both on his economic and social agenda).
You don't have to like the result however complaining about it and burying your head in the sand does nothing to change it. If you are that into Bernie Sanders get out and help fund raise for him, go door knocking to inform voters. You will never get anywhere by simply pointing the finger of blame at other people - progress is made by being introspective and admitting faults.
the voter fraud has already been proven and the current system doesnt work.
as far as bernie is concerned, if u had half a brain u would see that its redistributing the weath not creating it. do realize we spend 1.4 TRILLION a year dollars on corporate welfare alone? the top 14 companies who make record breaking profits paying little to 0 taxes. they pay starvation wages, and forces the govt to compensate by paying out in benefits and food stamps. meanwhile the rest of the "middle class" (or wats left of it) r stuck fitting the bill. not to mention we spend 60% of our budget on the military while cutting military benefits. so while theres money for war to send people to other countries to make money for the privatized companies like Halliburton, they come home with nothing to show for it, if they come home at all.
we spend trillions on war but the 75 billion a yr to send people to college tuition free is too expensive? when wallstreet falls apart and need a bailout, they get the trillions they needed to stay afloat then turn around and give themselves bonuses? or how about when ceo's give themselves raises but cut pay for the lower end workers?
economists have proven that it DOES work but u go ahead and keep feeding the establishment and drinking their brand of kool-aid.
"You don't have to like the result however complaining about it and burying your head in the sand does nothing to change it. If you are that into Bernie Sanders get out and help fund raise for him, go door knocking to inform voters. You will never get anywhere by simply pointing the finger of blame at other people - progress is made by being introspective and admitting faults."
and for the record.....i have
as far as the current conversation goes,
im against voting for the lesser evils. change doesnt come from voting for the front runner, it comes from pushing ur beliefs. clinton should be in jail and trump is an absolute joke. it brought out the hate this country has been hiding. theres a good 50% voting for trump (im sure) that r voting cuz he is on the republican ticket. its the same with hillary.
u shouldnt vote based on party. it should always be about their policies. wat they r fighting for and whom. hillary has already proven that she will fight for her donors (ie: wallstreet and big companies) while trump is clearly a millionaire who has his own interests in mind. so y would i vote for them? my vote may very well go to waste and not be used to pick the next president. but my voice will be heard on who and wat i would like to happen. millions of people feel the same way. thats how change is done. chances r my vote may just very well go to jill stein but we will see wat happens. it certainly wont be for "the lesser of 2 evils"
for what its worth, it's hard to say things like "if you had half a brain..."
and then say r u serious, and if ur voting cuz.
Quote from: Talon on July 17, 2016, 10:57:36 AM
for what its worth, it's hard to say things like "if you had half a brain..."
and then say r u serious, and if ur voting cuz.
If I could still give you broccoli, you'd have ALL the broccoli's.
Warning: No need in name calling and insulting. I'm not going to lock it but if it continues I'll shut it down.
im sorry, i wasnt trying to come off like a dick
Quote from: Knuckles on July 17, 2016, 09:40:06 AM
the voter fraud has already been proven and the current system doesnt work.
as far as bernie is concerned, if u had half a brain u would see that its redistributing the weath not creating it. do realize we spend 1.4 TRILLION a year dollars on corporate welfare alone? the top 14 companies who make record breaking profits paying little to 0 taxes. they pay starvation wages, and forces the govt to compensate by paying out in benefits and food stamps. meanwhile the rest of the "middle class" (or wats left of it) r stuck fitting the bill. not to mention we spend 60% of our budget on the military while cutting military benefits. so while theres money for war to send people to other countries to make money for the privatized companies like Halliburton, they come home with nothing to show for it, if they come home at all.
we spend trillions on war but the 75 billion a yr to send people to college tuition free is too expensive? when wallstreet falls apart and need a bailout, they get the trillions they needed to stay afloat then turn around and give themselves bonuses? or how about when ceo's give themselves raises but cut pay for the lower end workers?
economists have proven that it DOES work but u go ahead and keep feeding the establishment and drinking their brand of kool-aid.
"You don't have to like the result however complaining about it and burying your head in the sand does nothing to change it. If you are that into Bernie Sanders get out and help fund raise for him, go door knocking to inform voters. You will never get anywhere by simply pointing the finger of blame at other people - progress is made by being introspective and admitting faults."
and for the record.....i have
... so you do agree he doesn't create wealth? As someone who's studied economics (while paying for my education) I'd love to know which economist has proven that 2+2 equals anything other than 4 like you assert. Microeconomic theory is based entirely around the influence of consumption and taxation is ALWAYS a net negative (-T). The only way to redistribute money is via taxation which will lead to a lower aggregate consumption function and thus a net loss as opposed to net growth.
Corporate welfare has powered economies since the middle 1600's when the four big colonial nations granted exclusive rights to land and trade areas to certain companies. It created a shit ton of wealth and is responsible for the USA at the end of the day. Now-a-days it looks a little bit different but if you look at how the world works today raising taxes will hurt the US because capital is incredibly mobile. You know why states give tax breaks; it's to bring jobs that otherwise wouldn't exist, so that people who would otherwise be unemployed get work and they can collect tax revenue from them. Not only that but they spend that money locally which allows other business' to thrive. Its called the economic multiplier for a reason. Easy example here and let's use your defense example is Talon; he's not Haliburton or Raytheon but because the Government is spending money on Military he can train people which means he can buy the Fried Chicken from the Gas Station, which means the person working the till can go to CVS and get Plan B when TJ's done with her. NONE of which happens without that initial injection of money from the Government. And those profits that you complain about doing nothing; they end up back in shareholder pockets. It's easy to focus on individuals who get money in 401K's and LIRA's but also think of how much you pay in insurance - versus how much it would be if they didn't make any money on your premiums?
As for the upper class not paying taxes I might be ignorant but I believe that the rich use the same roads as you do which is part of county/state tax. They use the same recreational facilities that are part of municipal taxes. There's not a separate set of first responders that respond to their calls than to yours. So why should they pay a penny more than you? I have no kids to I believe your three? Should you have to give me to 1.5 them so that we're equal? That's effectively what you're advocating for. And while we're at it given that the government is going to just take the money that I've worked for and ensure that I get the same as someone who does no work; I look forward to sitting in my lounge chair with no pants and enjoying funemployment for all it's worth as your Chocolate shop pays for me? I know I won't make as much as I currently do but I know I'll enjoy jerking off in my basement more than some days at work (although if I'm currently single does that mean I get someones wife/girlfriend too ... if so, I call dibs on Leo DiCaprio's because I'm sure she's smoking hot).
In the UK we all agree and work in the knowledge that those who earn more, pay more tax. It's a way of giving back to the country and helping those who cannot contribute as much. Some people don't like it, sure, but they accept it. In a years time, my wage will double, but my monthly take home will do far from it, because the amount of tax I pay will increase.
But I pay it gladly if I know it's going to improve the country (and it's my right to vote for who I think can do that best - yes we currently have a parliament full of complete a-holes but there's always hope).
Socialism isn't an idea that's fitted well to America. The American dream, at it's core, is a selfish one. Look after yourself and let others do the same. It's not a 21st century idea but it's how you guys have grown as a nation.
It's also why you have incredibly expensive medical bills and insurance. We have the NHS. We all fund the healthcare of everybody with a tax that comes from our wages. Seeing what happened with Obamacare etc, that's not something you guys will entertain. I, personally, think the American healthcare system is horrible. Here, you get help if you need it. You don't have to go on living with terrible ailments or injuries because you can't afford private medical insurance or commercial hospital treatment bills.
It's a shame, but that's how it is.
Also, I'm not sure how the welfare system works in the US compared to here, but a life on welfare is not much of a life. Here, it often pans out that consecutive generations of families end up on state benefits, and a cycle like that is hard to break. Yes, you get money to help you live. If you're poorly educated and have no sense of responsibility - because you didn't learn it from your parents - you end up spending the rent money on playstations and cigarettes. You get kicked out of one house after another and a trail of mounting debt follows you wherever you go. You never, ever, own anything significant. It's a life, sure. It's not a good one.
Well, WikiLeaks has just confirmed what many of us suspected all along.
Quote from: Jack on July 22, 2016, 10:22:28 PM
Which makes the fact that Sanders endorsed Clinton even more sickening to me.
he is doing it for the sake of beating trump. he doesnt actually believe her bullshit
Might try providing links.
It's still endorsing corruption.
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on July 22, 2016, 10:31:20 PM
Might try providing links.
To sum it up, Trump was right about the DNC. :sparta:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-sanders-clinton.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-sanders-clinton.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0)
Quote from: Drama Queen on July 22, 2016, 10:31:57 PM
It's still endorsing corruption.
Agreed
Quote from: Knuckles on July 22, 2016, 10:30:36 PM
he is doing it for the sake of beating trump. he doesnt actually believe her bullshit
He took the opposite route of Ted Cruz who basically has been getting booed ever since he didn't endorse Trump.
yes its still sickening
Quote from: Jack on July 23, 2016, 11:30:51 AM
Have to say, I actually really respect Cruz not endorsing Trump (not because of my personal political leanings, but because I believe it shows heart for him to stick to his beliefs). I wish other candidates did the same more often.
I feel the opposite. Ted Cruz started all of that up by giving the approval to do an ad about Melania Trump. Trump went after him and now Cruz is acting like a baby because of that retaliation when he started the whole thing. It also gave credence to Trump's Lyin' Ted moniker. Cruz has no right to use that as an excuse when he's the one who brought that element into the election to begin with.
Okay well the Democratic primary being rigged isn't even new news. DWS already admitted as such back in January. The party elites control the primary, not the people. It has ALWAYS been like that. That's why we have superdelegates and media black outs.
HOWEVER, none of that is Hillary's fault specifically, she just happened to be the establishment shill who benefited from it. It could have been ANYONE else in her position and the results would have been the same.
If you want change in the Democratic party the LAST thing you do is abandon it. You get inside it and fuck it's day up.
This is going to give the delegates one more chance to hijack the nomination though. So that's cool.
Quote from: GM Franchise on July 23, 2016, 01:35:05 PM
I feel the opposite. Ted Cruz started all of that up by giving the approval to do an ad about Melania Trump. Trump went after him and now Cruz is acting like a baby because of that retaliation when he started the whole thing. It also gave credence to Trump's Lyin' Ted moniker. Cruz has no right to use that as an excuse when he's the one who brought that element into the election to begin with.
Didn't it come out that a Superpac not involved with Cruz put out that ad, thus he didn't actually start it?
Also to use the word "abandon" suggests that we were somehow supporting the Democratic party to begin with.
Your analogy is flawed. You only have two choices in America and no amount of calling it unfair or moaning about it is going to change it.
You forget ONE key detail. MOST voters vote for party loyalty, and that's not going to change. Remember our conversation about stupid voters? Stupid voters are the majority in this country. Both parties work hard for those voters only. Anyone else is sunk.
And yet those of us refusing to be stupid voters are being lectured about how we're wasting our vote.
I don't like our political system anymore than you do. That doesn't mean non-participation is the answer. We have to play the shitty cards we are dealt. There are no mulligans, there are no re-draws.
You are equating voting for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson as nonparticipation? Because that's what it sounds like.
Nobody here is talking about not voting at all.
Depending on the State you live in.
I can't remember exactly and am not 100% sure if it's still the same way, but it used to be (and I think still is) for Wyoming that for third party candidates to be on the ballot they have to get so many votes each time.
Wyoming will ALWAYS go republican for Presidential Candidate. So I usually vote third party. It could be considered throwing away my vote, I guess, but I'd rather have my vote actually do something as opposed to not.
You're becoming quite repetitive. And as presumptuous as most people who discuss politics.
You are coming across with a tone that suggests you assume we are starting off with some sort of allegiance to the Democrats in the first place. And that if we are not voting for Hillary we are therefor sulking, taking our ball and going home or other reasons that equate us with being unreasonable, bordering on stupid.... all because we refuse to vote for someone we believe to be corrupt to the core.
Here's a newsflash for you... maybe... just maybe... some of us don't think Hillary will be any better than Trump. She fucking terrifies me almost as much. She supports trade agreements like TPP that have so much hidden shit in them that I feel like we will be doubly fucked, as workers and consumers. I think she will not help any of the grassroots movements when it comes to get things properly labeled as organic or non-GMO, I think she will go with the corporations on those things and make it very hard for us to distinguish what we are eating or where it comes from and that's a HUGE deal to me.
But no, we're just being sore losers by not voting for her.
I'm getting tired of it dude. You mention we should "change the system from within" which is a nice trite little cliché, but you don't really go into much detail in how to go about that. Aside from that you are just repeating the same point over and over and kind of implying the same condescending air of superiority.
There are other points of view aside from yours.
In fairness, I do understand the state of urgency you seem to be expressing with the prospect of Trump winning... but some of us don't feel like the alternative will be any better. Sorry.
I'm going to be following Stein and Johnson closely in the coming months to see which of them will be getting my vote. Right now I'm very fifty/fifty between them.
Change happens from the bottom up, not from the top down. In order for 3rd parties to be viable it starts on the local level, not the national. We are NEVER putting a non-Democrat or non-Republican in the top office unless there are already a bunch of 3rd parties all the way down from county commissioners up to senators and governors. Right now in the countries' top offices, that's 50 governors, 100 senators, and 435 representatives, a grand total of 4 are independent, or 0.06% of those positions.
We have a long way to go before we can even dream about putting someone like Johnson or Stein in the top office.
In the meantime if you live in a battleground state which are like 4 or 5 states, not the entire country, a 3rd party vote is equivalent of voting for your least preferred candidate. Don't misconstrue my argument, I already said voting for 3rd parties is great if you don't live in one of those states, because 3rd parties need 15% of the vote to get on the debate stage and 5% of the vote to get federal funding. If you think my argument is anything you just said DQ then you do not understand anything.
Except for the fact that DQ is spot on T-Bone.
You are hypocritical by saying you should only support a third party candidate in a non battleground state but then state that they need 5% for funding, and 15% for debate. That number stems regardless of where you vote from, battleground state or not.
You didn't hear this from me, but Bernie is making one more run at securing the nomination...and it sounds plausible...
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on July 25, 2016, 07:31:52 PM
You didn't hear this from me, but Bernie is making one more run at securing the nomination...and it sounds plausible...
Why you gotta do Knuckles like that?
That Reference
My Head
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on July 25, 2016, 07:31:52 PM
You didn't hear this from me, but Bernie is making one more run at securing the nomination...and it sounds plausible...
HEY NBC SOME DUDE ON THE INTERNET TOLD ME BERNIE GONNA TRY TO GET THE NOM NOMS!
"What's his name?"
I don't know but I know him as T-Bone!!!
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on July 25, 2016, 07:31:52 PM
You didn't hear this from me, but Bernie is making one more run at securing the nomination...and it sounds plausible...
Cue up the popcorn when Trump trolls them all on Twitter over this... 8)
Trump couldn't locate his penis if it was surgically attached to the palm of his hand, let alone troll somebody.
Quote from: Dorling on July 26, 2016, 01:44:45 PM
Trump couldn't locate his penis if it was surgically attached to the palm of his hand, let alone troll somebody.
I'm going to dispute this based on the fact that he's made billions of dollars - multiple times over. You can disagree with his social politics however he has business acumen that dwarfed every other person running in the primaries on both the Democrat and GOP side.
Actually, he's a terrible businessman. His companies, which he saddles with massive debts, have filed for countless chapter 11s.
Then there's this:
'Citing an independent evaluation, Business Week put Trump's net worth at $100 million in 1978. Had Trump gotten out of real estate entirely, put his money in an index fund based on the S&P 500 and reinvested the dividends, he'd be worth twice as much -- $6 billion -- today, according to the calculator maintained by the blog Don't Quit Your Day Job.'
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/03/if-donald-trump-followed-this-really-basic-advice-hed-be-a-lot-richer/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/03/if-donald-trump-followed-this-really-basic-advice-hed-be-a-lot-richer/)
His net worth today is only $4bn. He would have had more if he'd just left it to interest.
Every one of his competitors have increased their worth substantially more than him in the last 27 years.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-vs-other-billionaires-2015-8 (http://uk.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-vs-other-billionaires-2015-8)
He's an imbecile and if he is responsible for investing the American public's tax dollars, I genuinely fear for them.
He's really good at saddling other people with his debt.
Relevant reading...
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/19/24362128/dan-savage-on-jill-stein-just-no (http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/19/24362128/dan-savage-on-jill-stein-just-no)
Also
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/21/24371858/the-green-party-responds-to-dan-savage-says-hes-dead-wrong (http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/21/24371858/the-green-party-responds-to-dan-savage-says-hes-dead-wrong)
Finally
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/22/24376309/how-green-is-her-bullshit-an-uncharacteristically-brief-response-to-the-green-partys-spokespersons-dishonest-response-to-my-podcast-rant (http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/07/22/24376309/how-green-is-her-bullshit-an-uncharacteristically-brief-response-to-the-green-partys-spokespersons-dishonest-response-to-my-podcast-rant)
It's always fun having two criminals running for president.
Don't you have to be convicted to be a criminal?
No
I mean, technically, not morally.
If I rob a store but never get caught, I have no criminal record. In the eyes of the law, I'm not a criminal.
And the reason for not being caught would be lack of evidence.
And without evidence nobody except me can be sure of what I did.
And if nobody knows for sure what I did, calling me a criminal would be slanderous/libellous.
In the eyes of the law.
Well the fact of the matter is that we have the Republicans calling Hilary a criminal and chanting to lock her up, and honestly for what she did she should have been put on trail, BUT the man in charge of the investigation feels she did nothing wrong on purpose.
On the other hand we have Donald Trump who just a few days ago ASKED Russia to hack the US and get 33000 emails. 33000 in which the FBI already have so there is no need for anyone to hack our country besides the fact that if Russia or any other countries does that then Trump will be able to see those emails and use them against his opponent.
So on one hand we have Hilary who deleted some e-mails which contained US Security secretes vs Trump who asked a Foreign government to hack the United States which is in essence the definition of Treason.
So is Trump going to be charged with treason, no because he was "joking" and is Hilary going to be charged with anything? No because the FBI who was investigating her said she didn't do it on purpose.
So yes I do believe both of them to be criminals and yes I think US is walking a very thin line BUT I think Trevor Noah of the Daily Show said it best.
"With Hillary Clinton, worst-case scenario, you have a bad president for four years, America, you have never had a Donald Trump before, A man claiming to be the leader law and order and make America safe candidate. That man who invites foreign hackers to steal files that he himself said contain national security data. That man. That's a leader you've never had. A man who publicly admires and very possibly colludes with Vladimir Putin. A man who is lovingly endorsed by Kim Jong Un. A man who praises and doubles down on praising Saddam Hussein. These are his role models. These people you have to understand, once they're in power, they don't go away, You don't get to a chance to vote them out in four years. Their rule ends when the country ends. To all the people out there considering voting for Trump, I hope you enjoy your vote. Because on days like this, you realize, this could be the very last vote you will ever get."
And I agree 100 percent with that he said here, and thats why I'll put my vote on Hillary, because writing in a vote or voting for a third party at this point won't do a damn thing.
It sounds like Trevor Noah... on a COMEDY television news show... doesn't have a full grasp on how our American government is bodied. Even if Trump is elected as president, every decision he makes more or less goes through congress as well. He can't just do whatever he wants. And the same goes for Hilary... except the scary part with her... is she actually know how to abuse the system. It's a lose-lose no mater what... they both scare me to death as leaders of this country.
But I'm sure Trevor Noah got a decent amount of laughs though. So he accomplished his only mission he has.
Quote from: Jon on July 29, 2016, 09:55:55 PM
It sounds like Trevor Noah... on a COMEDY television news show... doesn't have a full grasp on how our American government is bodied. Even if Trump is elected as president, every decision he makes more or less goes through congress as well. He can't just do whatever he wants. And the same goes for Hilary... except the scary part with her... is she actually know how to abuse the system. It's a lose-lose no mater what... they both scare me to death as leaders of this country.
But I'm sure Trevor Noah got a decent amount of laughs though. So he accomplished his only mission he has.
I saw the segment. Trevor Noah doesn't get many laughs. I don't know anything about him but everytime he talks about American issues, it seems forced and obviously written by someone else. He seems clueless on what's going on in America imo
Except Trump gets a Republican majority in the senate and house with which to dismantle the country. You bet your ass he will get the things he wants done in exchange for whatever Paul Ryan wants done.
Quote from: Jon on July 29, 2016, 09:55:55 PM
It sounds like Trevor Noah... on a COMEDY television news show... doesn't have a full grasp on how our American government is bodied. Even if Trump is elected as president, every decision he makes more or less goes through congress as well. He can't just do whatever he wants. And the same goes for Hilary... except the scary part with her... is she actually know how to abuse the system. It's a lose-lose no mater what... they both scare me to death as leaders of this country.
But I'm sure Trevor Noah got a decent amount of laughs though. So he accomplished his only mission he has.
Jon gets it....
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on July 29, 2016, 10:21:22 PM
Except Trump gets a Republican majority in the senate and house with which to dismantle the country. You bet your ass he will get the things he wants done in exchange for whatever Paul Ryan wants done.
Not necessarily. The Dems can regain control in November.
Trevor Noah is a funny guy.
Quote from: Dorling on July 30, 2016, 06:17:01 AM
Trevor Noah is a funny guy.
I would hope so, he's on Comedy Central.
Quote from: Gravedigger on July 29, 2016, 11:22:58 PM
Not necessarily. The Dems can regain control in November.
They can, but the prediction is they won't.
Donald Trump will get this country attacked...repeatedly.
Quote from: Justin on July 30, 2016, 02:00:57 PM
They can, but the prediction is they won't.
Donald Trump will get this country attacked...repeatedly.
Hate to sound pessimistic but you already are. I do not see how Trump will create any more attacks than Hillary given that neither partys position placates extremist groups.
I believe the arguement is that his mouth will write a check that our nation will have to cash.
Quote from: Mike Powers on July 30, 2016, 08:49:03 PM
I believe the arguement is that his mouth will write a check that our nation will have to cash.
I understand but I think you're giving Trump too much credit (though there may be a bit of presupposition in this post). I think it's unfathomable that Trump will incite any more attacks on America than Hillary will as a result of the minute differences in their foreign policy agenda. I do not see moderates become extremists as a result of Trumps actions and it is not as if the extremists are going to say "Oh, Hillary, we won't attack because we like you". These groups hate America regardless of it's domestic situation. You may see some claim "it is because Trump" but these attacks over the past ten years have proven that there doesn't need to be a rhyme or reason. You could even argue the inverse that some of Hillary's economic policy is "more" likely to spur an attack. Think of how happy the oil producing companies would be if there was an international incident that caused the price of oil to rise exponentially, especially in the face of Hillary/Bernies "Green" agenda.
To wit; Trump isn't writing any cheques that Hillary won't/wouldn't sign.
Quote from: Gravedigger on July 29, 2016, 11:22:58 PM
Not necessarily. The Dems can regain control in November.
There is no scenario where we elect Trump and the Dems gain control of the senate too. Trump winning means Dems stay home.
Quote from: Captain Metro on July 30, 2016, 09:54:08 PM
I understand but I think you're giving Trump too much credit (though there may be a bit of presupposition in this post). I think it's unfathomable that Trump will incite any more attacks on America than Hillary will as a result of the minute differences in their foreign policy agenda. I do not see moderates become extremists as a result of Trumps actions and it is not as if the extremists are going to say "Oh, Hillary, we won't attack because we like you". These groups hate America regardless of it's domestic situation. You may see some claim "it is because Trump" but these attacks over the past ten years have proven that there doesn't need to be a rhyme or reason. You could even argue the inverse that some of Hillary's economic policy is "more" likely to spur an attack. Think of how happy the oil producing companies would be if there was an international incident that caused the price of oil to rise exponentially, especially in the face of Hillary/Bernies "Green" agenda.
To wit; Trump isn't writing any cheques that Hillary won't/wouldn't sign.
Stop that, no country is going to declare war on a country for going green. You're just fearmongering.
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on July 30, 2016, 10:11:39 PM
Stop that, no country is going to declare war on a country for going green. You're just fearmongering.
If you can explain how the Saudi's and Iranian's can operate a theocracy when Oil is under 10 dollars a barrel I will retract my statement. Iran would scare me in this situation given they are also in position of nuclear armaments.
You think they will declare war with the justification of "rawr you're not buying our oil anymore so we will attack you until you do." That's crazy talk.
Even with a shift in energy use it doesn't mean oil stops getting used. It means oil is shifted away from straight energy use and into refinement and production. Energy use is the top use for oil, but it's not the only one. Those countries will find a way to innovate and make use of their resources somehow.
In a theoretical Iran with nukes + war situation they have to get some benefit over declaring war. There is no benefit to try and force a country to buy oil from them. A show of force in that manner won't accomplish anything. It's more likely Iran declares war over countries continuing to meddle in their sovereign affairs, because then they have something tangible to gain IE us leaving them alone.
There are some compelling reasons why a country might feel forced into military action. I doubt the world taking action on climate change is one of those reasons. Inaction on climate change is more likely to upset countries than action.
So you think he's going to abandon all the radical campaign promises he's made? The promises to spend ~25b on a wall with Mexico, to deport all illegal immigrants, to target the families of suspected terrorists, to ban Muslims from entering the country, to start a trade war with China, to do all these harmful things, to convince his base that these things are good things, and the great Donald Trump is going to abandon those promises? The man who can do no wrong is going to go "I was wrong to make those promises"?
Even if he doesn't do any of that, he still will be a Republican President with a Republican controlled legislature that want to push policies to restrict women's rights, to restrict voting rights, to dismantle protections for the most vulnerable in our society, destructive tax breaks, destructive economic policies, all in the name of fantasies like "small government" and "trickle-down economics". He'll also get to put a conservative person on the Supreme Court to do more fantastic things like Citizen's United for the next 30 years.
Please do not make the mistake of understating or underestimating what a Trump presidency will do and cost the country. Please do not make the mistake of thinking "no way he can follow through with his rhetoric". What is even the best case scenario for a Trump presidency? I've outlined some pretty bad things that I don't think this country can afford to have happen. Even small incremental changes to the right will still do way more harm to way more people than good.
This is the year surly where the sheer awfulness of the two leading Candidates is bad enough that Gary Johnson's chance is as good as it'll ever be. Trump is a joke in every sense and Hillary is a child rapist defending pathological liar.
As your neighbor above, vote Gary to have a clear conscious.
The risk is too great to bank on "well he doesn't care and won't do anything". Because if he does half of what he says or lets the Republicans do what they want to do either way that's a huge backwards step for the country.
Say what you want about the character of Hillary, I can't think of any policy she has that'll do the damage to the country the way any Trump policy would if he carried them out.
We get it dude. Trump bad. Hilary tolerable. Message delivered.
Quote from: Jack on July 31, 2016, 12:33:53 PM
My belief is that if Trump is elected, he's not going to do anything radical.
But what he WILL do, is find ways for his business to make more money off of taxpayers. It's a get rich scheme for him and nothing more.
Yep... Hillary will make sure her interests are taken care of as well if elected. 99% of this nation don't benefit from either in office.
Quote from: Mike Powers on July 31, 2016, 02:24:32 PM
We get it dude. Trump bad. Hilary bad. Message delivered.
Fixed.
Trump is really plumbing the depths this week. I think his mind is finally unravelling.
To the Hillary or Bust crew:
How about Goldman Sachs?
Remind me again why it should be anyone but Trump?
Quote from: Captain Metro on September 06, 2016, 09:57:33 PM
To the Hillary or Bust crew:
How about Goldman Sachs?
Remind me again why it should be anyone but Trump?
He's an openly racist and prejudicial person, for starters. Thinks Roger Ailes is a "great guy". He's going to bring jobs back to America, but his clothing line is made in China and Indonesia. He and the Russian president are pals. Thinks a judge is biased because he's Mexican. He was sued by the Justice Department because he would not rent to black people. Let's not forget him not condemning the KKK.
These are just to name a few. While I will agree that Hillary is not my favorite choice, I believe her to be better fit to be President.
Also his economic plan is hideous, he wants to dismantle the EPA, wants to build a wall that will cost 25b that Mexico is NEVER paying for, wants to commit war crimes in the Middle East, doesn't know that Russia invaded another country and continues to occupy it, doesn't understand how the judicial system works, doesn't understand how government works, barely understands how business works considering a monkey making random decisions or low indexed stock fund would have made the same amount or more money than he has over the last 25 years...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ)
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on September 07, 2016, 08:50:23 AM
Also his economic plan is hideous, he wants to dismantle the EPA, wants to build a wall that will cost 25b that Mexico is NEVER paying for, wants to commit war crimes in the Middle East, doesn't know that Russia invaded another country and continues to occupy it, doesn't understand how the judicial system works, doesn't understand how government works, barely understands how business works considering a monkey making random decisions or low indexed stock fund would have made the same amount or more money than he has over the last 25 years...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ)
75b
His business dealings, which get a lot of coverage, are real estate. Now he's created a successful real estate business, but that is different from your typical corporate business. Of course he has the 4 bankruptcies there, but people are overlooking his fraudulent "Trump University" and how his company misled and defrauded people of their money to take courses.
I honestly, just don't get it. Sure, Hillary isn't the greatest candidate either, but as a person how can you vote for someone like him just from a humane standpoint? Ok, so he says what's on his mind and is different from the status quo as far as politics go, but the guy is just a pile of ripened shit that smells like it's been sitting in the Sahara all day.
(http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1310483866536.jpg)
8)
Quote from: Mike Powers on November 08, 2016, 10:50:45 PM
(http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1310483866536.jpg)
FUCK!!!
I am can not fucking believe it ... We are Fucked
I hope you protest voters are happy with yourselves.
Yay... Brexit isn't the worst vote of 2016 anymore
........
As a Canadian thank you America. As soon as Trump won, Putin said he looks forward to rebuilding a strong relationship with America, unlike if Hillary won and her need to try and get that no fly zone over Syria (aka telling Russia to fuck off). Id rather not deal with Russia threatening to nuke America and everything attached to it be in the kill zone lol.
Doesnt make the day any less awful, but it looks like they legalized weed in a bunch of states so light up and chill.
Jack , the problem is not just Trump ... Republican now have the majority in senate and house , which means they can push through anything they want. 8 years of progress ,is going to be gone in 4 years. slowly and surely all good things that we take for granted are going to good away especially if you're a minority and a woman . We're going to be moving back toward the 50's now. Which again is not a good thing.
Trump exploited people hate and fear . the common man feels he getting a real deal from the government ( which is some regards is true) and Trump took advantage , Change is not always a good thing and he not going to be running the country at all at , he going to hand of running the country people with their own agendas.
we are fucked ... the middle class is going to be wipe out your either going to be rich or poor that it.
I am black and disable ... I am scared as shit right now.
I understand everyone that voted for him is not a bad person, They want change, They are people who are downtrodden and disillusion with the government they want to know that there being taken care of. The problem is he not the guy to do it. He proven in his past , he is all about himself.
yes, jack , I really do , it not Trump, He just a puppet really , it the Republican agenda that scares me... because understand you have the different perspective in this , It harder to see things from my side of the street. Nothing wrong with that. I know you don't have that same fear as I do. But now the Republican are going to do pretty much what they want for awhile. not as extreme as segregation I know , but I feel there going remove a lot of goods things that been done to improve this country. that is my biggest fear.
Very well said Jack.
Quote from: Jack on November 09, 2016, 11:56:45 AM
I find a lot of people pretty hypocritical this morning.
I was told by a lot of people that when the person I wanted to be president lost, that I should just respect the process and support the person that beat him. Now that it has happened to their candidate, I'm seeing things like "Trump isn't president yet! He might still do something to ruin himself!" and complaining about the outcome. If you're someone who said that Bernie supporters should respect the process and support the person that beat him, then you really should respect the process at this point and respect the person who beat Hilary. Pretty hypocritical to do otherwise.
Also, I see a lot of people who call Trump a bully, now calling Trump supporters terrible names and assuming that we all must be racist sexist rapests and doing the exact things that they condemned Trump for.
I didn't vote for Trump, (I didn't vote for President at all....but I live in California where we were confirmed Hilary about 1 hour into voting anyways). For all the doom and gloom, I don't believe my individual life will be changed one way or the other.
I've lived through (as a working adult) a full Bush presidency and a full Obama presidency and I can say that neither did anything to affect my life personally, and I doubt a Trump presidency will really be any different...other than I'm going to have to see social media updates every day with dumb things Trump said or did...which is really no different than the Bush Presidency anyways.
Not sure if you are naive, if you just don't realize the personal impact on you, or if you are one of the VERY few people who didn't see an economic impact in the last 16 years.
Love it or hate it, post Affordable Care Act a vast majority of Americans are paying dramatically more for their insurance (which funnily enough, covers LESS than it used to).
Also, it doesn't particularly matter what side of the aisle you are on, American politics are built on checks and balances. Having one party with 100% control (Republican OR Democrat) isn't in the countries best interests.
Quote from: Jack on November 09, 2016, 12:46:55 PM
Exactly which things do you think will be taken away? Do you REALLY believe that in 4 years we're going to have segregation and a ban on women in the work place?
The truth is, there will probably be some MINOR tax changes, and we'll fight a war somewhere. Which is pretty much what happens with every single president over the last century.
Obama was a great president, so to assume Trump can undo everything he did in half the time says that Trump must be amazing.
You clearly don't have anything to worry about with a theocratic bible thumper a heartbeat away from the white house and a full majority in house and senate that can do things like restrict birth control or pass "religious freedom" acts.
And with a full control of house and senate, any supreme court justice that gets nominated by trump will sail through. There's already one seat that's going to swing the balance of power back to republicans. And with the potential for one or two to come up, we'll see more than what's happened already.
You might think YOU might not see any changes, but that doesn't mean there aren't millions who won't.
Jack, while you make a point to some degree that more times than not a lot of people don't see a major difference in their personal lives based on who is president, but this election goes WAY past that.
Our country just elected an openly racist, sexist, bigot, and bully as president. From a humane standpoint, the man is despicable and all of his remarks over the past year and a half are proof that he doesn't have anyone's best interest at heart other than his.
But even if you look past the human aspect...the guy really has no definitive policy on anything. His one definitive policy is building the wall. He talks about bringing jobs back form overseas, but yet his clothing line is made in China and a second country that I can't remember off the top of my head. Several economists have said his views on NAFTA and other trade agreements will send the country into another deep recession. He talks about a tax break, but how is he going to pay for it? He's mentioned demolishing the Department of Education, the EPA and a couple of other agencies in order to help pay for his tax break.
And as a couple of others have mentioned, Republicans now have the presidency, house, senate, the majority of governorship's so there is not real checks and balance....and by the way the last time that happened was 1928....the year before the Great Depression.
Kanye vs. Trump, 2020.
I live in Ohio...just a few miles away from rural industry. They all have wanted this. I don't know what's going to happen from here but my health insurance went up 600% from the start of ACA and I don't even classify as any type of risk (other than my alcoholism). So I'ma watch the world burn and see what happens.
I have a sofa if anyone wants a place to stay.
Quote from: Rob on November 10, 2016, 07:10:07 AM
I have a sofa if anyone wants a place to stay.
I'd move to the UK but you guys hate immigrants.
Let me start off by saying I didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton. I think they are both borderline terrible human beings.
I keep hearing the excuses of Trump being a racist... I've searched it on google and outside of a few things that I could see be taken as racism, I just don't see how people call him bigoted and racist with such affirmation.
Hillary has also said some borderline racist things as well, but her supporters seem to be ok with that.
Is there something I'm missing here?
Quote from: Jon on November 10, 2016, 03:58:57 PM
Let me start off by saying I didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton. I think they are both borderline terrible human beings.
I keep hearing the excuses of Trump being a racist... I've searched it on google and outside of a few things that I could see be taken as racism, I just don't see how people call him bigoted and racist with such affirmation.
Hillary has also said some borderline racist things as well, but her supporters seem to be ok with that.
Is there something I'm missing here?
I believe he had some sort of endorsement or relationship or something with the KKK?
Quote from: Tritch on November 10, 2016, 04:05:37 PM
I believe he had some sort of endorsement or relationship or something with the KKK?
It's not like he was going around bragging about it though, he can't control who supports him.
Quote from: Jon on November 10, 2016, 04:11:45 PM
It's not like he was going around bragging about it though, he can't control who supports him.
That's one of the few things I didn't get that was against him too.
Quote from: Jon on November 10, 2016, 03:58:57 PM
Let me start off by saying I didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton. I think they are both borderline terrible human beings.
I keep hearing the excuses of Trump being a racist... I've searched it on google and outside of a few things that I could see be taken as racism, I just don't see how people call him bigoted and racist with such affirmation.
Hillary has also said some borderline racist things as well, but her supporters seem to be ok with that.
Is there something I'm missing here?
A few things...it only takes one. Plus his actions over the years as a businessman also point towards it. He's been sued multiple times back in the 80s and 90s for not renting to people of color among some other dealings.
He's accused a judge of not being able to do his job because he's Mexican. But even further, the man is a sexist and obviously doesn't respect women whatsoever and he's said (which I understand he didn't know he was being recorded) that he's basically sexually assaulted women.
And I will agree, Clinton wasn't much better of a candidate and the only reason I voted for her was because the state I live in is a swing state and I knew my vote was needed, but dude is just outright a terrible human being.
Quote from: Jon on November 10, 2016, 04:11:45 PM
It's not like he was going around bragging about it though, he can't control who supports him.
Well he never denounced them either until days later.
The Mexico wall, the stopping of Muslim immigration, the deportations.....he's said quite a few racist things.
Quote from: Tritch on November 10, 2016, 04:05:37 PM
I believe he had some sort of endorsement or relationship or something with the KKK?
Actually on the relationship thing, that's Hilary you're thinking of. One of her mentors and good friends was a KKK grand wizard. Some KKK members endorsed Trump, but he has no control over that, just like you would have no control over it if some members of ISIS or the Neo-Nazi party, were to say that you're someone they like.
Aren't the Donalds parents members of the KKK? Neo-Nazis and racists support Trump because of the racist things he has said.
Quote from: Rob on November 10, 2016, 06:09:30 PM
Aren't the Donalds parents members of the KKK? Neo-Nazis and racists support Trump because of the racist things he has said.
To the best of my knowledge, neither one of his parents were members of the KKK. As for the "racist" things he's said, give me one example without talking about illegal immigrants or refugees that were not vetted in any way. Wanting people to follow the immigration laws of this country isn't racist. Wanting to keep people who could have ties to terrorists organizations, is not racist. On the judge thing, that judge is part of a Mexican group that is against Trump and is quite vocal about it. I wouldn't want a judge who I know is biased against me, presiding over a case, would you? Don't use sound bites or spliced together footage or 20 seconds of a 5 minute speech.
"Give me an example without using any of the examples I deem off limits".
Quote from: Mike Powers on November 10, 2016, 06:24:51 PM
"Give me an example without using any of the examples I deem off limits".
Yes, because things like that are used to fit a specific agenda. You can't just take things completely out of context and say it proves your point.
define terrorist? because if i walk into a mall with a bomb with the intention of "terrorizing" people that makes me a terrorist even though im not muslim so plz be more specific. the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is nothing more than point of view....
Quote from: Rob on November 10, 2016, 07:10:07 AM
I have a sofa if anyone wants a place to stay.
Dibs.
Quote from: Knuckles on November 10, 2016, 07:53:59 PM
define terrorist? because if i walk into a mall with a bomb with the intention of "terrorizing" people that makes me a terrorist even though im not muslim so plz be more specific. the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is nothing more than point of view....
A person who wishes to do harm to a country and it's citizens. Did I ever once say that all muslims are terrorists, like you seem to be implying? Fact is, there are literally thousands of people, some that potentially have ties to terrorists organization and are wanting to use the refugee status to get in to the country so that they can harm American citizens. There's already been multiple reports of them using false identities. We have to have a way to at least make sure they are who they say they are. Our first responsibility is to our own citizens, not the rest of the World.
Quote from: Mike Powers on November 10, 2016, 05:28:53 PM
The Mexico wall, the stopping of Muslim immigration, the deportations.....he's said quite a few racist things.
Stopping ILLEGAL immigration is racist?
He proposed stopping LEGAL Muslim immigration. The deportations would include legals and illegals alike. The wall is thinly veiled propaganda.
I think I'm going to politely bow out of this thread. I'm not a Republican, I'm not a Democrat. What I am is a sensible guy with two eyes to see what's right in front of him. There is far too much 'rose colored glasses' viewing going on (on both sides of the aisle) for me to not get frustrated talking to people.
Quote from: Justin on November 10, 2016, 04:30:25 PM
A few things...it only takes one. Plus his actions over the years as a businessman also point towards it. He's been sued multiple times back in the 80s and 90s for not renting to people of color among some other dealings.
He's accused a judge of not being able to do his job because he's Mexican. But even further, the man is a sexist and obviously doesn't respect women whatsoever and he's said (which I understand he didn't know he was being recorded) that he's basically sexually assaulted women.
And I will agree, Clinton wasn't much better of a candidate and the only reason I voted for her was because the state I live in is a swing state and I knew my vote was needed, but dude is just outright a terrible human being.
Well he never denounced them either until days later.
Justin, I understand what your are saying. And the things you brought up steel things I saw when I did a search. However, and not to make excuses... what has he actually physically done or personally said that is racist? I've seen things other have said he's done or others have said he's said... but I just haven't seen any proof of him actually being racist. Yet those on social media and even in person talk about him like they have personally seen this racism themselves. It makes me a little confused.
As far as the women abuse... yeah, he's a pig. It's a big reason I chose not to vote for him. I don't support his behavior in any way shape or form. But I also didn't think too highly of Hillary and I'm not one of those people who go... but my party needs this vote. I don't have a party. I have my own morales and beliefs and I chose to vote for someone that I would like to represent my vote, if that makes sense.
I've just seen a lot of hate towards Trump and I get it... most of it is just. But a lot of it seems to be media propaganda and the Clinton supporters and the Trump haters supporting it.
Quote from: Mike Powers on November 10, 2016, 10:16:18 PM
He proposed stopping LEGAL Muslim immigration. The deportations would include legals and illegals alike. The wall is thinly veiled propaganda.
I think I'm going to politely bow out of this thread. I'm not a Republican, I'm not a Democrat. What I am is a sensible guy with two eyes to see what's right in front of him. There is far too much 'rose colored glasses' viewing going on (on both sides of the aisle) for me to not get frustrated talking to people.
I don't mean to sound uninformed, but I may be. Can you link e to a credible source so I can inform myself further?
Quote from: Mike Powers on November 10, 2016, 10:16:18 PM
He proposed stopping LEGAL Muslim immigration. The deportations would include legals and illegals alike. The wall is thinly veiled propaganda.
I think I'm going to politely bow out of this thread. I'm not a Republican, I'm not a Democrat. What I am is a sensible guy with two eyes to see what's right in front of him. There is far too much 'rose colored glasses' viewing going on (on both sides of the aisle) for me to not get frustrated talking to people.
He proposed stopping these refugees being rushed through the system because they weren't being properly vetted. He never once said anything about deporting legal immigrants. If you are here on a work visa or something similar or immigrated in to this country legally, you have nothing to worry about. Was it thinly veiled propaganda back when Bill Clinton talked about building a wall? Because I seem to remember praise for that.
I read somewhere that Hillary Clinton wanted a wall built as well. Google search says 2006. Does that make her racist too?
And I'm not trying to come at this with the angle as if Trump is better. As an american, I'm trying to better understand where all this hate and fear of Trump is really stemming from. I don't like him as an individual, but I don't sit in the same type of fear I've seen others talk about.
I just hope our country is still able to come together and continue to build on the good things regardless of what our government plans to do. We are stronger than I think we even know.
There have been instances in the past where Hilary has said racist things.
I'm no expert but I think half the problem was if you dislike Trump enough you HAVE to like the other candidate. Hilary is her own kind of evil and the electoral saw that too.
As for racist things Trump has said? Off the top of my head, suggesting Mexicans are rapists and drug lords...
He definitely could have worded things differently...
But there has been a large portion of illegal immigrants involved in drug trafficking, violence, and sex-abuse related cases. So he's not entirely wrong. There are a lot of bad people, mixed with good, yes, that freely cross into the United States.
Someone can correct me if I interrupted what Trump wants do as wrong but I believe what he wants to do is have each individual go through the proper channels to gain access into this country. That way it's the good only that come in.
They both suck. Big time. That's why the vote tally is so close. If either side had a decent candidate their side would have won by a landslide.
I'm with Jon on this one. Donald's said a few stupid things, and may have had a shady practice or two in the past (what major business/businessmen hasn't), but I don't think he's going to run the nation as a racist. "White Power" won't dominate our nation, just like the people who thought Obama would lead an all black takeover of our government... Or Sharia Law (you know, he's a Muslim)... Or Martial Law... Or a Race War...
Truth is that our presidents pretty much all rule as moderates. Don't worry about David Duke getting a cabinet post....
just dont let Pence take over or all your nations funding will go towards gay conversion camps
Quote from: Jon on November 11, 2016, 09:53:05 AM
But there has been a large portion of illegal immigrants involved in drug trafficking, violence, and sex-abuse related cases. So he's not entirely wrong. There are a lot of bad people, mixed with good, yes, that freely cross into the United States.
And there are plenty of American citizens who do the exact same thing. We are going to throw them out of the country are we? No, we will continue with our current justice system of locking up minorities for far longer sentences than we do white people.
I digress, though I'd like to say one last comment. Only in America where "democracy" rules could we mess up something as simple as voting. Instead of every vote counting as one vote and the majority wins, we have an electorate college.
Quote from: Justin on November 11, 2016, 12:43:48 PM
And there are plenty of American citizens who do the exact same thing. We are going to throw them out of the country are we? No, we will continue with our current justice system of locking up minorities for far longer sentences than we do white people.
I digress, though I'd like to say one last comment. Only in America where "democracy" rules could we mess up something as simple as voting. Instead of every vote counting as one vote and the majority wins, we have an electorate college.
What does LEGAL Americans have to do with ILLEGAL immigrants?
I've always hated the electoral college but I understand there has to be something in effect to count for the lesser states with less population. If we didn't have an electoral college then California, New York, Texas, and Florida would decide our president. People in California have different polices needs/wants then someone from Montana. Someone from Texas differs from someone in Vermont. I understand the gripe about the EC, but I also understand the need as well.
Quote from: Jon on November 11, 2016, 01:35:07 PM
What does LEGAL Americans have to do with ILLEGAL immigrants?
I've always hated the electoral college but I understand there has to be something in effect to count for the lesser states with less population. If we didn't have an electoral college then California, New York, Texas, and Florida would decide our president. People in California have different polices needs/wants then someone from Montana. Someone from Texas differs from someone in Vermont. I understand the gripe about the EC, but I also understand the need as well.
Because people make the argument about illegal immigrants do all of these horrible things as if our own citizens don't do the same thing.
But to your electoral point...I disagree. There is only a 3 million vote difference between Clinton and Trump between those four states that you listed. So those four will not determine the president. One vote per person, majority wins. That is democracy.
If we just had popular vote, then every vote would count and they wouldn't spend all their time pandering to 3 states. Every state would get at least a stop since their vote would count. Even if a state leans red or blue, there are still people in that state voting for the other candidate and that helps the overall total.
Quote from: Justin on November 11, 2016, 02:22:41 PM
Because people make the argument about illegal immigrants do all of these horrible things as if our own citizens don't do the same thing.
But to your electoral point...I disagree. There is only a 3 million vote difference between Clinton and Trump between those four states that you listed. So those four will not determine the president. One vote per person, majority wins. That is democracy.
Every country has to deal with their own bad eggs... what he is trying to control is having to deal with other countries bad eggs.
I would be fine with popular vote being the deciding factor, but like I said, I also see the need for something along the lines of the EC.
Yeah I get the need for EC also, though overall it's hard to argue against Judge's point when 3 or 4 states become so pivotal.
But anyway the whole placing an X thing is inferior and flawed regardless.
Ranking votes is the way to go. That way people CAN vote for a third party without their vote being wasted, because they still get to have a say between the remaining candidates once their number one vote is eliminated.
It's the one thing I can say with absolute certainty that my home country does better than my adopted country.
Here's a good article about the EC.
http://excessofdemocracy.com/blog/2016/11/hillary-clintons-popular-vote-margin-is-meaningless-in-every-way-except-pithy-tweets (http://excessofdemocracy.com/blog/2016/11/hillary-clintons-popular-vote-margin-is-meaningless-in-every-way-except-pithy-tweets)
As an outsider, I'm admittedly not 100% informed on the subject, but the system seems archaic in terms of television and the internet. People aren't reliant on the candidate being there in person to be informed. An argument can be made for advertising, but the concern about focusing efforts in a few states seems like less of a big deal than it would have been when constitutionally drafted. Especially in light of it already happening anyway. What concerns me as an advocate for democracy is that voter turnout is essentially suppressed in 'safe' states. There are over 2 million people whose vote for Trump in New York did not contribute to the democratic process. Likewise, over 3 million in Texas voted for Hillary. What's the point in turning out to vote when even at the state-level (which seems to be where the US wants to keep things) the result is all-or-nothing? They need to find a way to make it more representative.
This may be an ignorant statement, and perhaps understating the value of agriculture to the US economy, but aren't the more populated areas actually more important in determining the course of the US? New York, for example, affects North Dakota more than North Dakota affects New York. Is it such a bad thing that presidential candidates would focus their efforts on these states if they have to focus them anywhere (which they already are)?
Quote from: Justin on November 11, 2016, 02:22:41 PM
But to your electoral point...I disagree. There is only a 3 million vote difference between Clinton and Trump between those four states that you listed. So those four will not determine the president. One vote per person, majority wins. That is democracy.
So very true. There is no way that Trump should be president when the majority of Americans voted for another candidate and the fact that Clinton clearly won the popular vote. The argument which is always made with going by the popular vote is that x-amount of people voted for someone else. It seems that the Republicans benefit more from the Electoral College than the Democrats do, considering it tends to work in their favour when their candidate loses the popular vote. First Bush, now Trump.
The EC is essentially a similar system to how parties are elected to form the government here in Canada, with the analog of each "electoral vote" being the various ridings within the provinces, including how the most populous provinces have more ridings and it is entirely possible that Ontario and Quebec alone (sharing the bulk of the ridings in the country) can potentially determine the government before the polls in the west close. It is a decent enough system when determining which candidates will be elected but it is an asinine system when choosing a leader where you are essentially being told "you're not really voting for the president, your 'vote' will go to the candidate who wins the popular vote in your state."
In Canada, the entire country doesn't get a direct say in who the prime minister will be, rather the party which wins more ridings than the other parties will form the government and the leader of that party becomes the prime minister, even if the leader loses their own riding. This happened in the last general election in British Columbia as the BC Liberals were re-elected (likely because people didn't trust the leader of the other major party) yet the premier lost her riding. While she still retained the leadership of the party and, thus, was still the premier she would not be able to enter the House of Commons with the government. So, in a blatant display of corruption, she had an MLA vacate his riding where she should be all but guaranteed to win and then ran in a by-election to get back into the Commons.
It's just scary that America went from a progressive stance, electing their first "minority" president to going to the opposite end of the spectrum and electing a disgusting racist misogynist who ran a campaign based on hate and fear. Dye Trump's hair black and... eh, nevermind. Perhaps the scariest quote from the campaign was "If we could run this country the way I run my company" when Trump BANKRUPTED his companies.
Now some might argue that Canadians or non-Americans in general shouldn't really be criticising the results of the election, but the United States calls itself and its president the "Leader of the Free World" and that world contains more than just the United States and the election of a president affects not only the United States but it's major trading partners in Canada and Mexico as well. So, yeah, if the US want to call itself the "Leader of the Free World" then they should take responsibility for that claim and think about how they will be affecting the world when they cast their vote, especially when that vote involves installing a thin-skinned bully who isn't even qualified to hold the office as president and a religious zealot as vice-president. It's baffling that so many people couldn't (wouldn't?) see through the rhetoric and lies Trump regurgitated through-out the campaign. Four years...
Quote from: Snap on November 15, 2016, 12:09:00 AM
...here in Canada...
Got room for me and my wife? We'll pay rent.
Quote from: Snap on November 15, 2016, 12:09:00 AM
So very true. There is no way that Trump should be president when the majority of Americans voted for another candidate and the fact that Clinton clearly won the popular vote. The argument which is always made with going by the popular vote is that x-amount of people voted for someone else. It seems that the Republicans benefit more from the Electoral College than the Democrats do, considering it tends to work in their favour when their candidate loses the popular vote. First Bush, now Trump.
The EC is essentially a similar system to how parties are elected to form the government here in Canada, with the analog of each "electoral vote" being the various ridings within the provinces, including how the most populous provinces have more ridings and it is entirely possible that Ontario and Quebec alone (sharing the bulk of the ridings in the country) can potentially determine the government before the polls in the west close. It is a decent enough system when determining which candidates will be elected but it is an asinine system when choosing a leader where you are essentially being told "you're not really voting for the president, your 'vote' will go to the candidate who wins the popular vote in your state."
In Canada, the entire country doesn't get a direct say in who the prime minister will be, rather the party which wins more ridings than the other parties will form the government and the leader of that party becomes the prime minister, even if the leader loses their own riding. This happened in the last general election in British Columbia as the BC Liberals were re-elected (likely because people didn't trust the leader of the other major party) yet the premier lost her riding. While she still retained the leadership of the party and, thus, was still the premier she would not be able to enter the House of Commons with the government. So, in a blatant display of corruption, she had an MLA vacate his riding where she should be all but guaranteed to win and then ran in a by-election to get back into the Commons.
It's just scary that America went from a progressive stance, electing their first "minority" president to going to the opposite end of the spectrum and electing a disgusting racist misogynist who ran a campaign based on hate and fear. Dye Trump's hair black and... eh, nevermind. Perhaps the scariest quote from the campaign was "If we could run this country the way I run my company" when Trump BANKRUPTED his companies.
Now some might argue that Canadians or non-Americans in general shouldn't really be criticising the results of the election, but the United States calls itself and its president the "Leader of the Free World" and that world contains more than just the United States and the election of a president affects not only the United States but it's major trading partners in Canada and Mexico as well. So, yeah, if the US want to call itself the "Leader of the Free World" then they should take responsibility for that claim and think about how they will be affecting the world when they cast their vote, especially when that vote involves installing a thin-skinned bully who isn't even qualified to hold the office as president and a religious zealot as vice-president. It's baffling that so many people couldn't (wouldn't?) see through the rhetoric and lies Trump regurgitated through-out the campaign. Four years...
Just a few points here. That "racist misogynist" had a female campaign manager and a black man in a key position on his campaign, so that doesn't really add up if he hates them. As far as the whole bankrupted his companies, it was 4 business out of something like 127. Literally less than 1% of his businesses went through bankruptcy. Third, the only qualifications for being president are that you're over 35 years of age and a natural born citizen, so he's completely qualified.
A big part of why he won, is that people got tired of being told they were idiots if they didn't blindly follow the left. They got tired of being called racist if they disagreed in any way with Obama. They got tired of being called sexist misogynist if they thought Hilary wouldn't be a good president because of her history of corruption and lies. What do you really expect to happen when you treat a large portion of your country, like shit? They're gonna turn against you and go for the guy who at least seems to care. Hilary kept trying to say she understood the plight of the middle class, while wearing 1600 dollar pant suits and flying around on her jet. Trump wears fancy suits and flies around on his jet too, but instead of saying he was just like us, he instead talked to people and tried to find out what things were like for them, because he doesn't deal with the same problems they do.
This is more of a question to those that complain about the EC and voted for Barack Obama in 2008.
Were you mad that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in the democratic preliminaries, yet Barack Obama won the primary?
Quote from: Snap on November 15, 2016, 12:09:00 AMThe EC is essentially a similar system to how parties are elected to form the government here in Canada, with the analog of each "electoral vote" being the various ridings within the provinces, including how the most populous provinces have more ridings and it is entirely possible that Ontario and Quebec alone (sharing the bulk of the ridings in the country) can potentially determine the government before the polls in the west close. It is a decent enough system when determining which candidates will be elected but it is an asinine system when choosing a leader where you are essentially being told "you're not really voting for the president, your 'vote' will go to the candidate who wins the popular vote in your state."
The Canadian system is retarded for that very reason and it's why fiscal, environmental and social policy are ALWAYS crafted to secure Ontario and Quebec. No one gives a fuck about the Maritimes or Territories. We'd be better off with an Electoral College type system that forces politicians to at least consider the hand that feeds them.
Quote from: Captain Metro on November 15, 2016, 09:53:55 PM
The Canadian system is retarded for that very reason and it's why fiscal, environmental and social policy are ALWAYS crafted to secure Ontario and Quebec. No one gives a fuck about the Maritimes or Territories. We'd be better off with an Electoral College type system that forces politicians to at least consider the hand that feeds them.
yep