Mock Election - Debate Thread {Moderated by Duckman and RebelChild}

[Duckman]

BUMPED!

Guys WTF, we doing this or not?

Peace

Duckman

[Tim-Æ]

I don't know. I've been extremely busy Sam and just haven't really been to the site that much or for very long.

[Big Gay Honker]

I've decided I'm waiting for Jesse Gunn to post first this time.  I'm very strong willed.

[Zombie Gunn]

Lolz, they be fearin mah rebuttals.

Ok, I'll put out my whole platform for you all to critique, and then you all do the same. That way we can start the election on November 1.

[Zombie Gunn]

Okay, this is what you get with a vote for Sirenum Scopuli:

A couple things I've already gone over and will just summarize.

* An end to the deregulation that caused the bank failures of this year, the airline failures of the past 10 years and the electrical & infrastructure problems which stand to be the most dangerous potential crisis on the horizon.

* Tax credits for manufacturing companies that keep their business here in America.  Grants for new inventions.  Increased funding to our math and science programs in the school system.

* More on education: A complete change in the way we look at and address education in every aspect.  Our students are falling behind in the world market.  Other countries are vastly surpassing us in not only the quality of education, but in focus as well.  Ask children in America what they want to be when they grow up and they will tell you: Policeman, racecar driver, fireman, sports star, Spiderman.  Ask a child in India: Engineer, business owner, scientist, doctor, astronaut.  We need to help our young children look at achievable goals that are prime for this country's needs.  And we need to make sure that those goals are not abandoned by not abandoning our children.  Math and Science need to be the two main focuses in our schools, while assuring that no child is left in the dark.  Extra tutoring should be encouraged, especially through tax credits and vouchers.  Lastly, our teachers need to be made aware of the best methods of teaching students.  Strict examinations of our teachers to make sure that they are not only knowledgable in the subjects they teach, but are capable of teaching it properly.  When I was in school, the football coach taught my math class.  Really now...

* Immigration is what this country was built on.  But uncontrolled immigration will destroy is as certainly as it has destroyed every known civilization that has not stopped it.  People should have the ability to come to this country legally, and without jumping through fiery hoops that they have to now.  That said, we do not have room for everyone.  This has become a major problem in our southern states as people from all over South America have been pouring across our borders.  This is even known as a safe spot for middle eastern terrorists to smuggle weapons into this country.  Weapons that will be used in another attack on the United States if not stopped.  Frankly, illegal immigration is out of control.  We should improve our security at our borders using the technology that we have.  A fence across the entire southern border is a start.  Immediate deportation of any person crossing the border illegally is next.  We also need to make sure that Mexico is doing its part to control the exodus from their own country.  I would speak with President Calderon and make sure that this issue is dealt with seriousness.  While rare, there has even been occasions where Mexican Military have crossed the border into the United States to assassinate gang members in clear violation of our border.  As far as I'm concerned, this is a passive act of war and cannot be tolerated.

* Healthcare is out of control, and one of the main problems is that free healthcare is being provided to people that are not even in this country legally.  First, I would deny healthcare to any person that is in this country illegaly.  This will free up money to be used for the optimizing of hospitals, which make running them more efficient and cheaper.  Lastly, it will drive down the cost of health care and make us able to provide better care to the patients that have already supported these hospitals through the taxes that Americans pay.  Second, I would end the financial heartache that healthcare has placed on people that have gone through accidents or tragedy.  Any citizen with over $25,000 in medical bills will have the government take care of these expenses.  Third, we need more routine checkups for this nation's children.  It's not uncommon for poor families to forgo taking their children to the doctor because it's too expensive.  I would give a $3000 voucher to poor families to use for routine health checkups.  Combine this with our promise to knock out overly high medical expenses due to tragedy and there should be no excuse for an untreated ailment.

* Iraq: Things are going well there with the recent surge.  Nobody can deny that it has worked to quell the insurgency.  Schools and hospitals are being built.  The Iraqi army is being trained.  Democracy has been established.  Now... what comes next?  I'm a firm believer in following what the generals say, and doing what they need.  They're the ones more accustomed to military strategy.  However, there are social considerations to look into.  Iraq is moving beyond the need for military intervention, and soon... we may find ourselves with fewer and fewer active military on the ground there.  But what comes next?  We need to make sure that the country is capable of sustaining itself, especially in the light of Iran and Saudi Arabia on each side.  In a way, the shift in power from the Suniis to the Shiites has taken some of the power away from Saudi Arabia and given it to Iran.  We need to make sure that this balance of power stays balanced.  We will never be totally out of the middle east.  As a world power, we need to be ready to defend democracy on all fronts.  Be confident however, that as soon as the generals are confident in the sustainability of the Iraqi military and as soon as the social analysts believe that the new government is secure... it will be time to let the new democracy do what all good democracies do: thrive.

* Terrorism: Al Qaeda has been crippled, but it is still there.  Terrorism will never be fully destroyed, as it has existed since there have been nations.  Osama will be found, and the remaining cells that are scattered throughout the world will be caught.  Furthermore, our top priority in the war on terror needs to be the prevention of another attack on the United States.  Currently, I believe that we have over 100 members of Al Qaeda currently in the United States as we speak.  That's a VERY conservative number, by the way.  We need to know about an attack BEFORE it's going to happen.  This comes through solid intelligence.  Prior to 9/11 the FBI had intercepted communications with the exact date of the attack.  However, they thought 9-1-1 was code, rather than a date.  If they had worked closer with other agencies, perhaps... well, perhaps.  That kind of oversight can never happen again.  That's why I support the Patriot Act.  However, with greater power comes greater responsibility to preserve the basic rights of American citizens.  It is not the place of this administration, nor any before or after to push these rights.  This country has always worked on accountability.  Checks and balances.  And homeland security must be checked and balanced.  With that, I would propose setting up a non-partisan organization to monitor Homeland Security to make sure that our basic freedoms are not being compromised.  Long gone should be the days when a single whistleblower exposes an entire web of abuses.  These abuses need to be carefully watched for and dealt with, publicly.

* Lastly, this country needs to be prepared for the worst.  Stockpiling oil in case of the arrival of Peak-Oil-Crisis is only a part of it, and prior administrations have done well to safeguard it.  However, the high population cities in this country are vastly unprepared for any major evacuation.  When the interstate highway system was developed in the 1950s, it was for the purpose of evacuating in case of an imminent disaster.  These highways have not been maintained properly.  We saw that a few years ago, when shortly after Hurricane Katrina, another hurricane was set to hit east texas.  Everyone, after being spooked by Katrina, decided to do exactly what officials have always said: "Evacuate"  Unfortunately, they couldn't quite do it.  The traffic was so horrible that nobody could get anywhere.  Greedy gas station operators spiked their prices to capitalize on the fear.  Many stations actually ran out of gas anyway, and many vehicles simply ran out of gas while on the road.  Luckily the storm proved to not be as bad as everyone had feared.  Had it been... it would have hit while millions of people were vulnerable out on the highways in their vehicles, far from any shelter.  The government has certain tasks given to it.  Services that the people of this country entrust to us, REQUIRE us to perform... and protecting the american people is one of them.  As president, I will put pressure on the states to do their part.  Much of their budget has been misallocated to fluff services, leaving the crucial elements to survival to sit on the back burner.  Roads are only a part of it.  As president, I would hold these states accountable for their failures to fulfill their responsibility.  The federal government can't do anything, nor should it.  But we can hold leaders accountable when it is THEIR responsibility.

Thankyou

[Big Gay Honker]

I'll just use the same topics as Gunn, whether they are the same or different.  I'll even have a few deals in other things I believe in.

*  I don't know about total deregulation of the banks.  Yes, some more regulation needs to be in place.  But I think accountablity is what we need more of.  Prison time for the guys who fudged the books to get the bigger bonus'.  Fines for the crooks who sold people an ARM loan that they knew once the interest adjusted, the people wouldn't have a home.  We gave these guys a free pass, and 700 billion dollars.  This money should have gone to the foreclosure victims, and the people who still pay mortgages.  This money wouldn't even stay in these peoples hands.  It would have gone to the *Gasp* Banks.  BUT NOOOOOO we gave them money and debts to keep they're barely managing.

*  I wont give tax credits to companies who stay in America just for doing me the grand honor of sticking around.  What I will do however, is VERY HEAVILY tax those who do leave.  Most of the companies who go over seas seaking cheaper labor, own patients on their goods, and very well cant change their names to get out of the tax without changing the name under their patients.  Then we'll know who they are, charge back taxes for when they did pull the wool over our eye's and will continue to tax them heavily.  I'll call this the welcome back tax, it's the tax that does to them what they do to their workers.  This tax will be so heavy, it will make it so it wasn't even worth going over seas.  Companies who've left over the last ten years will also be eligible for this nice tax.  If you are an American Corporation with only one plant over seas, the tax only applies to that one plant.  Not only will this encourage people note to look else where for employee's, but it will also encourage those who already left to come back. 

*  Education is now and will always be a serious issue.  Mr. Gunn is right we are in serious lack here.  I propose that we look more into teacher aides.  Get more bodies into the classrooms that can help students.  A good part of the problem is classrooms are getting overcrowded.  Too many students for the teachers.  Why not get one or two more aides per teacher, and help that problem out?  Teachers should also be more closely looked at on their abilities.  Make it easier to end their contracts if they can't proform their duties.  There are some teachers out there that are just too smart in what they teach, and they totally over shoot some kids.  We need to mold these teachers, teach them how to improve where they themselves are weak.  If we can't mold them, then we need to release them.  It's an ugly truth, but the kids are more important.

*  Immigration is something I fully believe makes us one of the best countries in the world, most people want to come here.  A magic wall unfortunately will fix nothing.  There are ways around these walls, over, next to, or under.  Then you have to pay for guards, and repairs for when someone decides they can damage it and go through the hole.  I would start by making bids on buying up a northern portion of Mexico.  Starting at the middle nitch on the west side of Texas, straight west.  Nationalize the citizins of the areas who can prove they've lived there for x amount of years.  Those who have no proof, we'll foot the bill to move them and a small bonus to help them until they find work.  And as sad as it is to say, call martial law in this area.  Again, it seems harsh, but this area is ungodly lawless.  This is a crime hub.  In doing this, we push the drug lords further south, and gives us a much smaller area to patrol.  Smaller area to patrol, we can saturate the area's of patrol better.  There will be more Up front costs in doing this.  I wont lie.  But if you get your arm chopped off, do you want a band aid or treatment?

I will also do away with blood of the land laws.  A good appeal to illegals is having their children here.  If they're caught, then deported, they still get benefits.  So lets do away with this law for illegal residents. 

I also want Hospitals to be more open.  State ID's MUST be used upon arrival.  If there is no State id, and no green card, police should be called.  Police are then to follow this person home.  ID's will be checked of everyone who lives in the home.  No green cards, they are to be finger printed, and checked.  Green card holders have their prints on file.  Try them in a court of law.  If they're found to be here illegally, ship them out to the boarder between Central and South America.  I think I read somewhere were Jesse Gunn Thought Mexico was a part of South America.  You funny funny little man you.

*Heathcare is something that we have the best of in the world, but our ability to insure our citizens quite frankly sucks.  Every working family is paying into medicaid.  But not every family is able to get it.  I say it's time the government worked with the insurance agencies.  More money will have to come out of paychecks for medicaid, but I want every family who pays into it, to get it.  Why pay for something if you can't have it?  Insurance companies win by having a broader customer base.  We win by getting more people insurance they can't afford.  This example is just for the argument.  Different companies charge different for their insurance plans, and Medicaid deduction is different by your wages.  Lets say a family plan costs you 80 bucks a week, and Medicaid is 30 a week.  You get your company insurance, and you pay for insurance you can't even use.  Or you don't pay company insurance, pay twice as much into your Medicaid, and receive benefits.  110 dollars a week, or 60...  lets think about that.  There are non working families out there as well, but that will tie more into

* Welfare reform is needed, badly.  I have no problem giving assistance to those who can't find a better paying job.  I am against raising minimum wage, because most jobs that pay it aren't career jobs.  But I would love to help those who at least try to help themselves.  Those who don't want to help themselves are the ones who I will force to help themselves.  The days of those freebies are gone under my watch.  If you collect welfare benefits and you don't work a minimum of 28 hours a week, then you will have to do community services to equal out the 40 hour work week.  This will encourage people to find better jobs, or even, find jobs.  Then they need less assistance.  Simple plan right?  Those who do not accept their service, will receive no welfare check.  If they are parents who are so irresponsible they take a chance to lose their home by not doing their service, we'll remove their children from this environment.  A real parent will do what it takes to keep their children first time around.  If they aren't willing to do this, they are unfit parents.  We'll give them a second shot, but they have to do their service, and keep doing it.  There is no third strike.  Families who are in the service program, will receive medicaid like a working family.  Cause lets face it, they are in fact working for their communities.  They at this point deserve it. 

*  Iraq is done.  I'm through with Iraq.  It's time they took over.  We'll advertise in America for them, former soldiers can play mercenary over there.  We'll even trim time for their inactive duty for incentive.  It's time they foot the bill. 

*Terrorism is something we'll have to deal with for a long time.  I think it's time to realize terrorist rely on their human rights to keep them safe.  I think it's time we treat them more harshly.  I don't care if it means amputating limbs off in the torture process.  I don't care if it means killing one in front of the others.  These few don't care about the rights to live of the many, why should the many worry over the few?  I can't promise I'll catch Osama.  I can't promise I'll end terrorism.  I will however make them very uncomfortable, and I will hurt them physically worst than they ever have before.  They will learn they're evil will no longer be protected.

*Energy-  It's time to depend on oil much less.  I will sign bills to put alternative fuels and their engines on the roads in a few short years.  We need to stop arguing over what type of engine, pick the best one, and produce it.  The Government will co own the patient of anyone who invents a better engine.  Believe it or not, there have been engines made that didn't use gas.  The inventors were killed.  Patients bought up by oil companies to never get used.  I will not allow this to happen.  They will never get another patient on a new engine they'll never use. 

I want more Nuclear plants made.  Nuclear is by far the cheapest and cleanest form of energy. 

*Retirement is an important issue to me.  We should respect our elderly, and they deserve their retirement.  I will lock social security away from government.  They will no longer be able to dip into the funds.  This will help to insure the program stays.  I also want to add retirement information to the required law posters every job is required to post.  I want people educated on retirement.  To encourage them to make their IRA's.  Teach them Social Security is meant to help retirement, not be retirement. 

*Taxation is another touchy issue these days.  I think the guy making minimum wage should pay the same percentage as the guy making billions.  I don't believe in trickle down, because business takes it instead of raising wages.  I don't believe huge business should get tax breaks.  Everything should be equal.  Why would I tax the Doctor who saves lives everyday more heavily, when he made the effort to make something of himself?  Why punish him?  He's got enough to worry about paying student loans, medical school, malpractice insurance, etc to worry about a higher tax rate.  He doesn't need a tax break either. 

*Law Enforcement is in need of an overhaul.  It's time to combine them all, and give them all the same resources, and share them.  INS, Police, FBI, should all be the same organization.  This prevents them from working against one another, and getting something done.

*Prison is not the ritz.  It's punishment for breaking laws that hurt citizens.  I want a new line drawn on what sends you to jail, and to prison.  Violent criminals, go to prisons.  Junkies who only hurt themselves, jail.  Both Prisons and Jails need to have all electricity removed.  No weights, no basketball goals.  no warm meals.  Nothing I consider a luxury.  No Visitors.  Our current prison system simply doesn't work.  Too many repeat offenders out there.  Too many people wind up right back.

These are things I'll work on, and more, if I'm elected.

I'm willing to wait on Chris if he's willing to continue.

[Exile]

We are at a very distinct crossroads for this country right now and we have the opportunity to go one of two ways. Either we close our eyes, plug our ears, and stay the course until we have driven everything that America is and was into the ground, or we stand up and finally take the reins back from the over privileged, under taxed, top 2% of the country.

We have a job security crisis right now that has put us at 8% and those numbers show no sign of stopping as the financial crisis claims more and more victims. This bailout package isn’t here to save Wall Street, we need it to save YOU. When jobs go, homes go and our mortgage and credit problems are stifling. Thankfully, with proper regulation we can begin to funnel money back into the banks and companies that need it so that we CAN make sure that Americans are keeping their jobs.

The question becomes how do we do that? Here is the unpopular answer, raise taxes. Not across the board, but major corporations should expect to see their taxes raised significantly, especially those seeing record profits in America’s current decline. Are small businesses going to be taxed? Yes, in most cases they will but not anywhere close to that the conglomerates will be paying. There is a sliding scale in place to make sure that we keep everything fair and balanced.

I know that I probably just scared several business owners and CEO’s right now, but I have a solution for you as well. While your taxes are being raised on one end, I will provide you with just as many tax CUTS if you are able to mandate your companies to a proper standard. That means breaks for companies creating jobs in America instead of shipping them overseas. That means breaks for companies working to create different kinds of alternate energies. That means breaks for companies who are willing to provide comprehensive health care packages for all of their employees.

That of course segues us into the health care problem, which is not something that is going to be solved immediately because of the complexities of it. I cannot and will not stand here and promise you universal healthcare. What I can do is what I mentioned before, making sure that we can get companies on board to provide you with a health care option that is affordable to you and to them. If you are an American in the workforce I want to make sure that you are being taken care of right now. If you are in between jobs, I want to make sure that COBRA systems are in place so that you are still able to maintain your coverage until you are working again. If you are unable to work then the government has always maintained Medicare and several other alternatives for you that we will continue to refine to make sure that you are able to get the best physical care you can get.

The topic of foreign policy has been a touchy one lately. We are still embroiled in an endless war in Iraq and a thankless war in Afghanistan which every day is growing more dangerous. The previous administration complete mishandling of the war in Iraq is well documented and despite that you are hearing everyday about how the surge is working, they aren’t telling you HOW the surge is working. Its not the added manpower, it’s the money and payment of the Iraqi Republic Guard being put back in place which of course was 85% of the insurgency in the first place. We need to continue that trend of giving power back over to Iraq while we keep an American military base in the country. Are we ending the war? Yes and no. Troops will be coming home but the war, which was always a war on terror and not a war on Iraq will continue.

The best way to do this is to increase the troop level in Afghanistan and hopefully with more allied forces in the works can finally quell the uprising of Al Qaeda in that area. Afterwards we are left with Iran and Pakistan on our plate and will need careful democracy in place to make sure that we have everything handled appropriately before finding ourselves in a similar situation to Iraq. What does that mean to the American people? It starts off with realigning ourselves win the UN and NATO and other world organizations which were created with this VERY purpose. It wasn’t idle threats of American which caused North Korea to cooperate, it was the combined actions of the UN. Finally, we will act in Darfur and no longer turn a blind eye to the senseless genocide that is happening there. I refuse to stand by as human life is thrown away so callously.

America is at a crossroads. We can stay the course, continue this path and find ourselves vulnerable and not even a shadow of the country we were. No country in the history of the world has maintained its military strength during a financial depression, that’s a fact. We need to fix this economy and for the first time in eight years put the needs of American’s over the needs of companies and conglomerates. As President, I will stand up for you. I will stand up for America. I will stand up for what is right and I will fight for us every step of the way.

Thank you.