Is George Zimmerman Telling The Truth?

[Jon Tees]

I often wonder what would have happened if Zimmerman died instead if there would have been just as much outrage over it or if it would have been something that was just seen as a routine, everyday occurrence in many parts of the country. You let Zimmerman tell it his life was literally hanging in the balance and he would have been killed if he hadn't pulled out the gun and shot Martin. Zimmerman honestly doesn't seem to have a lot of sympathizers so it would have been possible that his death would have been seen as "justified" given the fact that he followed Martin in spite of being specifically told not to.

[Justin]

You can assume what you want... That is the beauty of free will... We as humans take in information on a daily basis and form conclusions and thoughts about all of it...

Some people see Kim Kardashian and see a woman who is glamours and successful while others see a chick who did the nasty on video and became famous.

Everything we see we draw conclusions on based on what we see and what we have experienced... I am not saying that Martin was a little thug because I didn't know him but I am saying that the perception I have is he was a little thug based on what I saw and what I know from encounters during life...

Is it fair? No... But it is life... If you saw a picture of me with a hoddie on flipping off the camera then you could draw any conclusion you want and how could I or anyone fault you for coming to that conclusion based on what you saw...

Exactly...

In conclusion let me try to make my case a little bit more clear about how we as a society draw conclusions and make educated assumptions based off it...

Note Justin that I am not judging or  being a asshole just trying to make a point so don't get upset because...

Post #780 of the picture thread is of you and your wife on your wedding day...Now first off your wife is Black and the people in the background are Black which could either be her family or yours and or friends of both... I say possibly your family because while you are white complected you could be mixed for all I know... Actually you look Hispanic kind of like the guys I would encounter in Humboldt Park here in Chicago...

Now like it or not I have live a full life seeing many things and as shitty as it is you basically make assumptions and it leads to stereotypes... Do all Black people drink Grape soda? No... Do only Black Peopl drink Grape Soda? No... I sale Grape Soda here in my restaurant and I have never sold a can to anyone besides a black person... What does this mean? Nothing really but in my perception black people like grape soda allot... Is this true? Who knows... But from what I see it is my conclusion...

I look at you in this picture and I see the short hair, short trim goatee and ear ring and based off the Black wife and black people in the picture I draw this conclusion...

You grew up around mostly black people in your life and prob went to a school that was mostly black... You hung out with them and experienced first hand how the police force can be with making assumptions and harassing young people hanging out just because of the color of their skin... This basically leads you to take the side of Martin in this scenario because you have seen first hand that judging a book by it's cover can lead to bad things...

Now am I right? Prob not... I am sure if I am wrong you will tell me but I have made a assumption based off no real knowledge of you or your life and right or wrong it is what it is...

The pictures being shown by the media lead me to believe that they want everyone to tune in and follow the case to see if this young innocent black kid gets justice for being murdered... (And don't kid yourself this is about black and white) so if they put a picture of him blowings smoke or throwing up the finger no one would care if he got justice because they based off what they know would assume he deserved it...

It's fucked up but this is the world we live in... IMO...

I'm not upset at all.  You were stating your opinions, I was stating mine.  Simple as that.  And yes, I do know this is about black and white.

The issue I have is people try to use that pictures and make it seem like you said, a thug, instead of looking at all the facts.  Lets not forget Zimmerman lied about how much money he had for his bail, he and his wife were caught on tape talking about it.  He went and tried to get a second passport.  From what I've heard of the trial so far, there was no blood on the ground/concrete where he supposedly had his head bashed in by Trayvon.  He called the police and did exactly what they told him not to do and carried a gun with him.

It's not taking sides because of my life experiences, I'm taking sides based on the facts that have been presented thus far.

[Rebel Child]

I often wonder what would have happened if Zimmerman died instead if there would have been just as much outrage over it or if it would have been something that was just seen as a routine, everyday occurrence in many parts of the country. You let Zimmerman tell it his life was literally hanging in the balance and he would have been killed if he hadn't pulled out the gun and shot Martin. Zimmerman honestly doesn't seem to have a lot of sympathizers so it would have been possible that his death would have been seen as "justified" given the fact that he followed Martin in spite of being specifically told not to.

If Zimmerman would have died instead of Trayvon Martin, it would still be a tragedy. 

There would be public outrage over the fact, and the neighborhood watch programs,a nd local police officials especially in that area would state that 'under no circumstances are you to approach someone you suspect.  Call the police department, report the incident, and do not approach, tail, or follow.'.

Zimmerman would be hailed a hero by local law officers, and no doubt the mayor, for service to the community.  The widow would be consoled, and no doubt a kickstarter account would be created to assist with bills.

And why?

Because if Zimmerman had indeed died instead of Trayvon Martin - it is because Trayvon Martin was indeed a threat, a menace, and more than likely carrying as well. 

Florida would look more closely at the stand your ground law to boot.

BUT
That is all just a probability because Trayvon Martin is the one who died.

I know that it's about white vs. black, I know that in the media circus the judge and jury have already decided, but while in the actual court it's slightly different.

I will say this much though.

1) Zimmerman was clearly thinking of vendetta, vengance, vigilanteism (I spelled that wrong) and I say this due to the audio tapes that were released when he had called the dispatcher.  He was frustrated and fed up, worried about his neighborhood. 

2) He had no right following the kid for this very reason.  He -could- have gotten killed, he could have been shot if Martin was packing.  He had no thought for his well being and safety or that of others.  He was told -not- to approach nor follow the person in question.  He took it upon himself to do this for the reasons stated above.

3) He is not a police officer.  He was not wearing a bullet proof vest.  He did not have a partner with him.  In most neighborhood watch communities, where they have active neighborhood watches, they always do 'patrols' with a partner, or multiple partners.  Which kind of makes it look more like a case of being a vigilante, in my opinion at least.

4)  I watch Dog the Bounty Hunter and Dog and Beth on the Hunt (yea yea I know) but I remember very clearly about what Leland Chapman said once and it was kind of profound.  Your gun should be your last line of defense, you should not pull it unless you feel it absolutely necessary and your life is on the line, in fact, don't carry one.  Because more often than not, it is the first line of defense for people in that situation, and in turn, it goes from being a day day to a horrible day. 

Should Martin have attacked him? No.  But at the same time, should Zimmerman have followed him? No.  It's a tragedy no matter -how- you put it, for both of these families.

We don't know about Trayvon truly, and we won't ever know.  The media will pick and choose what the public know, the attorneys will pick and choose what the jury will know.  However, when I was in highschool I knew kids who were generally good kids, who tried to act a part to be more accepted.  Could this be what happened with Trayvon, and once he got accepted it was a rabbit hole? We don't know.  Is it plausible? Sure. 

Just like we won't truly know what Zimmerman is like.  Sure they can protray it in the media, there can be campaigns, but lets be honest.  A front is a front is a front.  There were serial criminal minds that were considered great guys, and the PR machine came out and made it seem so.  Is he a good guy?  Maybe.  Is he a bad guy?  Maybe.  We will never know. 

I will, however, say this much, it's a shame no matter what spin is put upon it, for all involved.


And I do have a question about that picture.

With that hand gun, is it truly a hand gun or an airsoft gun or something of that nature?  The reason why I ask is because I recall someone just recently posting a picture on twitter about getting a RT and a follow from someone who's famous by pointing a gun at a little girl.  The little girl turned out to be the guys sister, who was in on it, and the gun was a bebe gun.   They look rather realistic and close to what a real gun does, that is to someone who -doesn't- know guns at all, like myself.    So I was just wondering about that.

[Cory]

I think:

- Trayvon did something to deserve suspicion/beating
- The media is making it too one sided, the help of super racists Sharpton/Jackson dont help.

-BUT AT the end of the day, Zimmerman is guilty because this kid deserved an ass beating, why involve guns? When all is said and done if Zimmerman was this MMA guy, he shouldn't of had one problem kicking this thugs ass and sending a message. If Trayvon was a good/smart kid the media portrays him he would have A) realized he deserved the beating and needs to change B) he'd call the authorities and they would have got Zimmerman on assault, or you know.... he could do the opposite and after the beating go home grab a gun and his boys and pay a visit to Zimmerman for the other outcome here. Anyways...

......Zimmerman killed when an ass beating was warranted.  GUILTY.

[Jon Tees]

Anyone else find it odd that although he is actually biracial that Zimmerman was portrayed as being "white" it's actually a reverse of that situation with Barack Obama being biracial and being thought of as "black"  It's like other races take credit for people who are partially that race as being totally apart of it when the person does well and yet when they do something perceived as negative they belong to that "other" race.

[RickRampage]

Problem is that we'll never know what happened, or who truly started the fight. We only know that it ended with Zimmerman on his back, bleeding from his nose and the back of his head; and then, Zimmerman shot him. That's not stand your ground, it's plain self defense, and whether Zimmerman or Martin started the fight, it was apparent that Zimmerman wasn't as skilled at MMA as the media and prosecution wanted people to believe, in fact, his instructor said that on a scale of 1-10, he entered the gym at a 1 and left at a 1.5. The instructor said sure, he lost weight, but he still had a lot more to lose and a lot more training in MMA before he'd be even close to considered dangerous. Zimmerman was an out of shape, hispanic and caucasian dude who was beaten up by a taller, and more physically fit high school football player. I don't know when the last time you were in high school was, but I played football with guys that more resembled full grown men then high school kids. Also, the only people to bring up race were guys like Sharpton. On the police tapes, when asked to identify the person, Zimmerman never even mentioned race, which means that he likely couldn't see the person as it was dark and they were wearing a hoodie.

PS - I think the both of them are at fault for what happened. The situation escalated and neither one of them was man enough to just walk away. Trayvon could have said hey man, look, my dad lives in this neighborhood and I'm staying with him tonight. If you need me to, I'll call him and you can talk to him, you've probably even met him before since you're obviously real active in the community. But no, he likely decided to buck up and puff his chest and said some of the same derogatory words he used when on the phone with that girl, and decided to escalate the situation even further, which turned things into a fight and ended in his own death; but once again, Zimmerman could have also kept his fat ass in the car. So hey, both sides are at fault, and this is a tragedy, but it wasn't murder or manslaughter, or a hate crime, it was self defense and a tragedy.

[Justin]

Problem is that we'll never know what happened, or who truly started the fight. We only know that it ended with Zimmerman on his back, bleeding from his nose and the back of his head; and then, Zimmerman shot him. That's not stand your ground, it's plain self defense, and whether Zimmerman or Martin started the fight, it was apparent that Zimmerman wasn't as skilled at MMA as the media and prosecution wanted people to believe, in fact, his instructor said that on a scale of 1-10, he entered the gym at a 1 and left at a 1.5. The instructor said sure, he lost weight, but he still had a lot more to lose and a lot more training in MMA before he'd be even close to considered dangerous. Zimmerman was an out of shape, hispanic and caucasian dude who was beaten up by a taller, and more physically fit high school football player. I don't know when the last time you were in high school was, but I played football with guys that more resembled full grown men then high school kids. Also, the only people to bring up race were guys like Sharpton. On the police tapes, when asked to identify the person, Zimmerman never even mentioned race, which means that he likely couldn't see the person as it was dark and they were wearing a hoodie.

PS - I think the both of them are at fault for what happened. The situation escalated and neither one of them was man enough to just walk away. Trayvon could have said hey man, look, my dad lives in this neighborhood and I'm staying with him tonight. If you need me to, I'll call him and you can talk to him, you've probably even met him before since you're obviously real active in the community. But no, he likely decided to buck up and puff his chest and said some of the same derogatory words he used when on the phone with that girl, and decided to escalate the situation even further, which turned things into a fight and ended in his own death; but once again, Zimmerman could have also kept his fat ass in the car. So hey, both sides are at fault, and this is a tragedy, but it wasn't murder or manslaughter, or a hate crime, it was self defense and a tragedy.

How is it self-defense if he was the one following the kid even when the police told him not to?  That's more of a self-defense claim for Martin as he was the one being followed.  And why are you carrying a gun while your following someone?  Seems like to me he is looking for troubled.

By the way, just because Trayvon was a football player doesn't mean shit.  The kid was a beanpole....maybe 150 soaking wet.

[Mike Powers]

Am I the only one that doesn't give 2 shits about this?

[Drama Queen]

PS - I think the both of them are at fault for what happened. The situation escalated and neither one of them was man enough to just walk away. Trayvon could have said hey man, look, my dad lives in this neighborhood and I'm staying with him tonight. If you need me to, I'll call him and you can talk to him, you've probably even met him before since you're obviously real active in the community.

Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously are you really fucking serious? Isn't this the self proclaimed land of the free? We have to justify to complete strangers why were walking down a street? This is how you would act if a complete stranger asked you your business?

[RickRampage]

How is it self-defense if he was the one following the kid even when the police told him not to?  That's more of a self-defense claim for Martin as he was the one being followed.  And why are you carrying a gun while your following someone?  Seems like to me he is looking for troubled.

By the way, just because Trayvon was a football player doesn't mean shit.  The kid was a beanpole....maybe 150 soaking wet.

Here is the way self defense works Justin. Person A attacks Person B, B defends and gets the upper hand. Person B is allowed to land X amount of unanswered blows before self defense turns into aggravated assault. If the aggravated assault continues, Person A is allowed to defend themselves, including the use of deadly force if it is necessary.

So, whether Zimmerman threw the first punch or not, if at any point Trayvon had the upperhand and just continued to assault Zimmerman, causing him to fear for his life, he is by law allowed to use deadly force to save his own. The simple fact is this, if any of us were in that exact situation, whether we started the fight or not, and we felt we were going to die, we'd kill the other person to ensure we survived. That is basic survival instinct.

Now, I am not a violent person, but having served in the US Army as a Cavalry Scout, I can attest that when put in a situation where your life is in danger and some one is shooting at you, it becomes really easy to look down a barrel of a weapon and pull the trigger.

In an ideal world, none of these things would have happened. Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten out of his car and persued Martin. The two of them wouldn't have allowed a verbal exchange to turn into a fist fight. Trayvon would have ditched after knocking Zimmerman around a little bit instead of continuing to assault him. In an ideal deal world, Zimmerman wouldn't have pulled a gun and shot. Thing is, we don't live in an ideal world. People make bad decisions, and when you get two people that make bad decisions at the same time and place, bad things happen, and that is what happened here.

Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously are you really fucking serious? Isn't this the self proclaimed land of the free? We have to justify to complete strangers why were walking down a street? This is how you would act if a complete stranger asked you your business?

I was trying to make a point. Trayvon likely acted like the same tough punk he tried to portray himself as to his friends. He could have said, I am just on my way to the house I am staying at; and as a response to your question, I was walking home from a grocery store when I was a freshman in high school. Cops pulled me and a few friends over when we walked cause some one had called the cops on us for stealing. We didn't act like punks, we handed them receipts for everything we had a spoke to them respectfully. Told them where we had been and where we were going. We didn't act like young punks who were insulted for being pulled over. We didn't act as if we had been profiled as bunch of punk kids who had five fingered discounted some things. There is a way you act, and I suspect Martin didn't act that way.

[Chris Shields]

The people who were assigned to the jury for this case, found him not guilty. You can agree with that or disagree with it, but that's the simple fact. There is my thought on it, and all I'm going to say about the matter.

[Cory]

Here is the way self defense works Justin. Person A attacks Person B, B defends and gets the upper hand. Person B is allowed to land X amount of unanswered blows before self defense turns into aggravated assault. If the aggravated assault continues, Person A is allowed to defend themselves, including the use of deadly force if it is necessary.

So, whether Zimmerman threw the first punch or not, if at any point Trayvon had the upperhand and just continued to assault Zimmerman, causing him to fear for his life, he is by law allowed to use deadly force to save his own. The simple fact is this, if any of us were in that exact situation, whether we started the fight or not, and we felt we were going to die, we'd kill the other person to ensure we survived. That is basic survival instinct.

Now, I am not a violent person, but having served in the US Army as a Cavalry Scout, I can attest that when put in a situation where your life is in danger and some one is shooting at you, it becomes really easy to look down a barrel of a weapon and pull the trigger.

In an ideal world, none of these things would have happened. Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten out of his car and persued Martin. The two of them wouldn't have allowed a verbal exchange to turn into a fist fight. Trayvon would have ditched after knocking Zimmerman around a little bit instead of continuing to assault him. In an ideal deal world, Zimmerman wouldn't have pulled a gun and shot. Thing is, we don't live in an ideal world. People make bad decisions, and when you get two people that make bad decisions at the same time and place, bad things happen, and that is what happened here.
I was trying to make a point. Trayvon likely acted like the same tough punk he tried to portray himself as to his friends. He could have said, I am just on my way to the house I am staying at; and as a response to your question, I was walking home from a grocery store when I was a freshman in high school. Cops pulled me and a few friends over when we walked cause some one had called the cops on us for stealing. We didn't act like punks, we handed them receipts for everything we had a spoke to them respectfully. Told them where we had been and where we were going. We didn't act like young punks who were insulted for being pulled over. We didn't act as if we had been profiled as bunch of punk kids who had five fingered discounted some things. There is a way you act, and I suspect Martin didn't act that way.

I agree with all this, but im honestly 50/50 on I guess what side. When I heard the story first back jesus in early march when the police calls came in, I was questioning what kinda world do we live in where some kid gets shot. But the more and more I educated myself with this case (im no expert, just paid attention) it became clear that regardless what side you were on, the verdict was fair. No one knows what happened that night, enough to prove Zimmerman wasnt acting in self defense so you cant prove anything.

I know being close to Trayvons age, if some fat mexican came up to me while I was in a different neighborhood and getting in my face and I was truly innocent, Id tell him to fuck off or swing first, but always use my head. I really question Trayvons judgement for even getting in this situation. If he was really this innocent kid he would have been able to avoid this confrontation.

I do think Zimmerman should have served some time for excessive self defense though. Trayvon was a thug, I've grown up with guys with the EXACT mold of him, and Im pretty confident Trayvon escalated the confrontation "puffing his chest out" and shit went down. But a kid is dead and his murder goes free. Thats the fucked up part of the US law system, Zimmerman should have gotten like 5-10yrs.

[T-Bonizzle]

Zimmerman's life is over, so everyone still loses.

[Justin]

Here is the way self defense works Justin. Person A attacks Person B, B defends and gets the upper hand. Person B is allowed to land X amount of unanswered blows before self defense turns into aggravated assault. If the aggravated assault continues, Person A is allowed to defend themselves, including the use of deadly force if it is necessary.

So, whether Zimmerman threw the first punch or not, if at any point Trayvon had the upperhand and just continued to assault Zimmerman, causing him to fear for his life, he is by law allowed to use deadly force to save his own. The simple fact is this, if any of us were in that exact situation, whether we started the fight or not, and we felt we were going to die, we'd kill the other person to ensure we survived. That is basic survival instinct.

Now, I am not a violent person, but having served in the US Army as a Cavalry Scout, I can attest that when put in a situation where your life is in danger and some one is shooting at you, it becomes really easy to look down a barrel of a weapon and pull the trigger.

In an ideal world, none of these things would have happened. Zimmerman wouldn't have gotten out of his car and persued Martin. The two of them wouldn't have allowed a verbal exchange to turn into a fist fight. Trayvon would have ditched after knocking Zimmerman around a little bit instead of continuing to assault him. In an ideal deal world, Zimmerman wouldn't have pulled a gun and shot. Thing is, we don't live in an ideal world. People make bad decisions, and when you get two people that make bad decisions at the same time and place, bad things happen, and that is what happened here.
I was trying to make a point. Trayvon likely acted like the same tough punk he tried to portray himself as to his friends. He could have said, I am just on my way to the house I am staying at; and as a response to your question, I was walking home from a grocery store when I was a freshman in high school. Cops pulled me and a few friends over when we walked cause some one had called the cops on us for stealing. We didn't act like punks, we handed them receipts for everything we had a spoke to them respectfully. Told them where we had been and where we were going. We didn't act like young punks who were insulted for being pulled over. We didn't act as if we had been profiled as bunch of punk kids who had five fingered discounted some things. There is a way you act, and I suspect Martin didn't act that way.

Get the fuck out of here.  If Zimmerman throws the first punch then it's self-defense for Trayvon.  Like DQ said, I don't have to explain to nobody other than the cops why I'm walking down the street....with a bag of skittles and tea nonetheless.  It was fucking FEBRUARY for crying out loud.  It's cold in February, anybody stop to think oh yeah maybe that's why he's wearing a hoodie.  Not to mention, Zimmerman wasn't the police so there is no need for Martin to explain himself.  The man pursued the kid, had a gun with him.  If someone is following me at night and doesn't stop then I'm going to confront him too.  I appreciate your service, but you can't compare getting shot at and getting a beating you asked for by following the kid.  Two totally different things.

[Dorling]

It's totally a good job that you Americans do so much to protect your rights to bear arms, because when everybody gets to carry a gun nobody ever gets hurt.

This same event happens in nowheresville, any other country, nobody dies.