Is George Zimmerman Telling The Truth?

[RickRampage]

Get the fuck out of here.  If Zimmerman throws the first punch then it's self-defense for Trayvon.  Like DQ said, I don't have to explain to nobody other than the cops why I'm walking down the street....with a bag of skittles and tea nonetheless.  It was fucking FEBRUARY for crying out loud.  It's cold in February, anybody stop to think oh yeah maybe that's why he's wearing a hoodie.  Not to mention, Zimmerman wasn't the police so there is no need for Martin to explain himself.  The man pursued the kid, had a gun with him.  If someone is following me at night and doesn't stop then I'm going to confront him too.  I appreciate your service, but you can't compare getting shot at and getting a beating you asked for by following the kid.  Two totally different things.

Problem is Justin, that at some point, self defense turns into plain out aggravated assault. You can only argue self defense to the point at which you no longer have a need to defend yourself and can escape. When you can flee and get to safety, you're mandated by law to do so. If Trayvon had stopped fighting and ran when he had the chance to, he'd probably still be alive, and that is if, IF, Zimmerman started the fight. Your entire argument is based on the thought that Zimmerman threw the first punch, when all the facts that we know leading up to the exchange points to the possibility that Martin quite possibly threw the first punch.

Now sure, maybe to make himself sound better, Zimmerman lied about how the fight started, but we know for a fact that witnesses saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman before the shot was fired. We have also seen the bloody nose and the bloody pictures showing the back of his head, which could have been caused only by the slamming of his head into a hard surface such as the sidewalk. So, the physical evidence confirms Zimmerman's account to be true; which would mean that Zimmerman was walking away when something happened that caused him to turn and was then hit, and knocked to the ground by Trayvon, to which Trayvon then mounted Zimmerman and began to slam his head against the sidewalk; which resulted in him shooting Trayvon, which means that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman, not the other way around; which means that Zimmerman was pinned, couldn't escape, and feared for his life. Sorry but, I actually look at the case, not what CNN and Rev. Al Sharpton tell everyone because let's face it, Sharpton only gets money and media attention when he can call some one a racist who murdered some poor, innocent, African-American.

[Justin]

Problem is Justin, that at some point, self defense turns into plain out aggravated assault. You can only argue self defense to the point at which you no longer have a need to defend yourself and can escape. When you can flee and get to safety, you're mandated by law to do so. If Trayvon had stopped fighting and ran when he had the chance to, he'd probably still be alive, and that is if, IF, Zimmerman started the fight. Your entire argument is based on the thought that Zimmerman threw the first punch, when all the facts that we know leading up to the exchange points to the possibility that Martin quite possibly threw the first punch.

Now sure, maybe to make himself sound better, Zimmerman lied about how the fight started, but we know for a fact that witnesses saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman before the shot was fired. We have also seen the bloody nose and the bloody pictures showing the back of his head, which could have been caused only by the slamming of his head into a hard surface such as the sidewalk. So, the physical evidence confirms Zimmerman's account to be true; which would mean that Zimmerman was walking away when something happened that caused him to turn and was then hit, and knocked to the ground by Trayvon, to which Trayvon then mounted Zimmerman and began to slam his head against the sidewalk; which resulted in him shooting Trayvon, which means that Trayvon assaulted Zimmerman, not the other way around; which means that Zimmerman was pinned, couldn't escape, and feared for his life. Sorry but, I actually look at the case, not what CNN and Rev. Al Sharpton tell everyone because let's face it, Sharpton only gets money and media attention when he can call some one a racist who murdered some poor, innocent, African-American.

He should have been following him.

But if you want to talk facts, lets talk facts.  There was no trace of blood on Trayvon's hands despite Zimmerman stating that Trayvon covered his nose and mouth.  If you look at the pictures, the blood isn't spread on his face like it should have been anways.  It comes down in a nice straight line.  There was no trace of blood on the ground where he supposedly had his head bashed in.  There was no dna under Trayvon's finger nails and the like.  Based on the evidence, it sounds like Zimmerman beat his ownself up after the fact.  Not to mention, Zimmerman has lied and contradicted himself on numerous occassions about what happened.  He's obviously hiding something.

[RickRampage]

There were obvious signs of a fight taking place on Martin's body or else Zimmerman would have had no defense. The autopsy report showed as much. If it hadn't, Zimmerman would have been found guilty. That wasn't the case. Trayvon was, in fact, on top of Zimmerman when the shot was fired. There is proof of that. We can argue this all day, but that is what the actual autopsy report says. A fight occurred, and eye witnesses stated that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him. Those are the facts we have about the exchange, which all points to Zimmerman defending himself. The original Police Chief and the DA said there was no case here because everything pointed to self defense; but public pressure and pressure from our "Amazing" President brought charges anyways. This case was then made worse by men like Al Sharpton called Zimmerman a racist white man who pursued a black child out of racial hate; when there was no evidence of that; and Zimmerman never indicated the race of the person he saw when he called police and gave them his description. The media and Al Sharpton want people to believe he did, but he never did. This was a tragedy, yes, but it wasn't a crime.

[Justin]

I will respectfully agree to disagree. 

Except for the bit about Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc.  Can't stand those two camera chasing idiots.

[Rebel Child]

When Zimmerman was told straight up that he was -not- to pursue Martin, by a police dispatcher, he chose to ignore the direct order, and in turn broke the law.  I know that whilst the dispatcher is not a shielded police officer (most times), they still work for the police department. 

Not only that but the Neighborhood Watch Charter (NNWI) has several rulings in place for such things.  One of them is do not carry a concealed weapon, do not attempt to apprehend or arrest a suspect, do not insert yourself into a criminal situation, do not take any risks to prevent a crime, or make an arrest.

There is a reason behind this. 

Because the Neighborhood Watch wasn't created to be a vigilante group.  They were created to be assistants to the police, eyes and ears if you will, because the cops can't be everywhere.

One could honestly say that when Zimmerman chose to disregard what the Dispatcher said, when he was told to stand down, he stepped outside the boundaries of the law, and became a vigilante which is against the law.  In my opinion it stepped out of the purview of self defense when Zimmerman knowingly put himself into that situation, and chose to approach and perhaps even 'apprehend' the 'suspect'.

One cannot deny that there was indeed a physical altercation between the two people. 

But the altercation would not have happened if Zimmerman had listened to the dispatcher in the first place.  And that is the rub.

And whilst people may think that there was indeed a push on this case to be tried, I honestly don't think so not only because it looks like a case of vigilantisim, but also for the following reason:

Under the Tower/Castle law (I can't remember which it is), a person has a right to defend their home against burglars. 

However, the burglar, if they survive - they can sue the resident of the home that they were trying to break into for a plethora of reasons.  Mental and physical anguish, emotional upset, etc etc. 

And there are cases where the burglar was actually awarded money.

Also, if you shoot at the burglar and they later die of their injuries off of your property? Guess what? It's murder.

These are things one must consider when looking at this case.  The broad spectrum of the different areas of the law that it grazes and touches upon.   It isn't as simple as going "people were yelling for justice because it was a black kid, so the dude got tried for murder."

The unfortunate thing of this, is that not only a young kid trying to act hard and 'be a man' who could have perhaps straightened up his life, now does not have the chance... But also the fact that this has opened up a lot of cans of worms in other courts of justice.

Such as a man in Wisconsin trying to use the same theory and procedure after shooting a teenager in the back twice, because he thought the kid was stealing from him (not at that moment, but in days and weeks leading up to this).   He's trying to use Zimmerman's defense.

In the end a lot more people are going to try to use this instance in court to justify their actions. 

Which in turn is going to cause a headache not only for the courts, lawyers, and police officers, but also put a burden on the taxpayers, and a fear in the heart of people who are actually just your everyday common joes but someone 'may not like the look of them'. 

It's a very slippery slope.

I think Zimmerman should have been found guilty on charges of vigilante-ism.  But that wasn't on the table.  And I say that because it -is- what he chose to do.  To take the law into his own hands. 

[Stoner]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-july-15-2013/acquitted-development

Everything I have to say about the situation, funnier than I can say it, and in a British accent.

[Triple B]

None of us were there, so we'll never really know if Treyvon punched Zimmerman first or what exactly happened in that 1 min gap between Zimmerman getting off the phone in his car and the phone call to 911 that you can hear screaming on.

But...

I don't understand how a man who's is a trained kick-boxer AND is armed with a gun drives around at night, finds a child walking alone in the night, follows him, gets out of the car despite the police dispatcher telling him to remain in the car, continue to follow the same child on foot, confront him, fight with him, shoot him dead and claim that the kid was using the curb as a weapon even though the body was found 20 feet away from the curb... and somehow it's the child's fault this happened.

[Midas]

gets out of the car despite the police dispatcher telling him to remain in the car,

When Zimmerman was told straight up that he was -not- to pursue Martin, by a police dispatcher, he chose to ignore the direct order, and in turn broke the law.

Dispatcher:
Sanford police department, line is being recorded. This is Sean.

Zimmerman:
Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there's a real suspicious guy. It's Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around looking about.

Dispatcher:
This guy, is he white, black or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:
He looks black.

Dispatcher:
Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, a dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie. And either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes.

Zimmerman:
He's [ unintelligible ] just staring...

Dispatcher:
Oh, he's just walking around the area..

Zimmerman:
Looking at all the houses.

Dispatcher:
Oh, ok.

Zimmerman:
... Now he's just staring at me.

Dispatcher:
OK, you said it's 1111 Retreat View, or 111?

Zimmerman:
That's the clubhouse.

Dispatcher:
That's the clubhouse?

Dispatcher:
Do you know what the...He's near the clubhouse right now?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

Dispatcher:
OK.

Zimmerman:
He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

Dispatcher:
OK, how old would you say he looked?

Zimmerman:
He's got a button on his shirt. Late teens.

Dispatcher:
Late teens? OK.

Zimmerman:
Mhmm. Something's wrong with him. Yep, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is.

Dispatcher:
Ah, OK, just let me know if he does anything.

Zimmerman:
Get an officer over here.

Dispatcher:
Yeah we got them on the way. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman:
OK. [static] These a------- they always get away. When you come to the clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the clubhouse.

Dispatcher:
Ah OK, you said it's on the left-hand side from the clubhouse?

Zimmerman:
No, you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left, you go straight in don't turn and make a left...s---, he's running.

Dispatcher:
He's running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:
Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood.

Dispatcher:
Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

Zimmerman:
The back entrance.

Dispatcher:
Are you following him?

Zimmerman:
Yeah.

Dispatcher:
OK, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman:
OK.

Dispatcher:
Alright sir, what is your name?

Zimmerman:
George. He ran.

Dispatcher:
Alright George, what's your last name?

Zimmerman:
Zimmerman.

Dispatcher:
And George, what's the phone number you're calling from?

Zimmerman:
407-435-2400.

Dispatcher:
Alright George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?

Zimmerman:
Yeah.

Dispatcher:
Alright where you gonna meet with them at?

Zimmerman:
If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse, and uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left. And then they go past the mailboxes. They'll see my truck.

Dispatcher:
OK, what address are you parked in front of?

Zimmerman:
Um, I don't know. It's a cut-through, so I don't know the answer.

Dispatcher:
OK, do you live in the area?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, yeah.

Dispatcher:
What's your apartment number?

Zimmerman:
It's a home, it's 1950, ah c--- I don't want to give it out loud, I don't know where this kid is.

Dispatcher:
Ah OK, do you want to meet with him right near the mailboxes then?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, that's fine.

Dispatcher:
Alright, George I'll let him know to meet with you out there.

Zimmerman:
Actually could you have him call me and I'll tell him where I'm at?

Dispatcher:
OK, yeah that's no problem.

Zimmerman:
Do you need my number or you got it?

Dispatcher:
Yeah, I got it, it's 407-435-2400?

Zimmerman:
Yeah, you got it.

Dispatcher:
OK, no problem, I'll let them know to call you when they're in the area.

Zimmerman:
Thanks.

Dispatcher:
You're welcome.

I watched that clip Stoner put on here and it leads me to believe that allot of people watch these media shows and take everything that is said as fact instead of just doing some research themselves...

First, a dispatcher has NO AUTHORITY to command you to do anything and if you want to do some research on that then feel free...

Secondly, Zimmerman was out of his car already running after Martin when the dispatcher noticed the noise and questioned if he was running after him... Then simply said "We don't need you to do that" which in no way is a command or even a instruction it was simply a way of saying we don't need you to do something like a suggestion... And if you take the time to listen to the audio you will see that he stops and carries a conversation with the dispatcher after the fact with no more noise as if he is running...

Lastly, all I hear is how he had no right to follow the kid or confront him... But doesn't he have every right? I mean he has a right as a citizen to go and do as he pleases...

No one on here has mentioned the fact that on Feb 2nd 2013 called the police to report a suspicious man looking into the window of a home. He was told police were on their way and by the time they arrived the man had fled, 4 days later construction workers saw 2 black men lingering around a house while it was being robbed. The next day police found a young black man with the items stolen and Zimmerman identified the man as the man he saw on the 2nd...

In the year prior to Martins Death the community had seen:
8 Burglaries
9 Thefts
1 Shooting

I mean do you not think that Zimmerman was getting a earful about protecting everyone at each meeting...

Certain people are stuck on the fact that Zimmerman followed Trayvon and had a gun but no one bothers to take a step back and say... Oh shit what if that was me...

Imagine for a second that you didn't have a year and google to examine everything... Imagine for a second that you leave your house to go grab something and since you are allowed to carry a gun you do so because it is your right as a citizen... He was not on patrol for the neighborhood watch so the guidelines of the watch didn't matter only state law. He is driving back and sees a guy standing in the rain looking around...

"WTF is going on here, why would someone be out in this rain just looking around? Maybe he is looking to steal from a house"

So he picks up his phone and calls the cops, he is on the phone with them while Matrin walks up to his car looking around. He begins to run and Zimmerman possible thinks this:

"Fuck... He will be long gone before they get here and last time I let some guy get away they robber Mrs Robinsons home and she still has not recovered from that. Fuck it let me run after him and keep him in my eyes sight" NOTE NO ONE KNOW WHAT HE WAS THINKING NOT EVEN ME BUT TO MANY PEOPLE ASSUME THE WORSE

So he gets out a runs after and is suggested to by the police to stop to which he complies and finishes his convo... At this point all we have is Zimmermans account and if you don't want to believe that then you have to take the other facts...

*Who started it is up for debate so lets ignore that for a second since we only have one account and that is Zimmermans and anything else is pure speculation...

*Zimmerman has a broken nose and gashes on the back of his head

*Witnesses say they saw Martin on top and Zimmerman on his back

*Many people identify Zimmerman as the one screaming for help while Martins father clearly said it was not his son...


If you have a problem with the verdict then protest the Stand your ground law which allowed him to walk free... It is self defense if Zimmerman feared for his life plain and simple...

Regardless of who started it the defense proved that Zimmerman feared for his life and used deadly force under the law to kill Martin...  If you repeal that law then people are not allowed to hide behind it...

Truthfully I have been reluctant to post in this thread since the verdict because I feel certain people who are posting are being overly aggressive and rude when making their point... We should all be able to make points and hear each others side but certain people are not sharing this opinion...

[Justin]

And the kid has every right to walk around with a bag of skittles in his hand as well.

[Midas]

And the kid has every right to walk around with a bag of skittles in his hand as well.

I agree... But since allot of people like to bring up the skittles I will just counter with saying...

"He is not allowed to walk around with weed in his system"

Whats that got to do with anything?

Nothing... But it has as much relevance as the skittles...

[Stoner]

If we're going to assume that Zimmerman only had good intentions, then we must assume the same about Martin.  Imagine from his perspective.

>Be standing in the rain trying to be sure no vehicles are coming.
>Recognize a vehicle as a friends, approach it asking for a ride home to get out of the rain.
>Turns out the vehicle is not friend's car, get spooked and run because you're a teenager and don't have the rational capabilities of an adult.
>Be followed by said vehicle to your home, don't go inside for fear of potential serial killer/murderer/etc.
>See person outside of vehicle, approach asking if there is a problem.
>Person says something rude, implicates wrongdoing where there is none possibly based on race/look.
>BE A TEENAGER and react impulsively.
>Be shot and die.

[Midas]

If we're going to assume that Zimmerman only had good intentions, then we must assume the same about Martin.  Imagine from his perspective.

>Be standing in the rain trying to be sure no vehicles are coming.
>Recognize a vehicle as a friends, approach it asking for a ride home to get out of the rain.
>Turns out the vehicle is not friend's car, get spooked and run because you're a teenager and don't have the rational capabilities of an adult.
>Be followed by said vehicle to your home, don't go inside for fear of potential serial killer/murderer/etc.
>See person outside of vehicle, approach asking if there is a problem.
>Person says something rude, implicates wrongdoing where there is none possibly based on race/look.
>BE A TEENAGER and react impulsively.
>Be shot and die.

I will accept this...

During this scenario he reacted impulsively and attacked Zimmerman and thus Zimmerman according to a jury of 6 who found him not guilty defended himself... In Florida you are allowed to use deadly force if you fear for your life. This is what it boils down to...

[Justin]

I agree... But since allot of people like to bring up the skittles I will just counter with saying...

"He is not allowed to walk around with weed in his system"

Whats that got to do with anything?

Nothing... But it has as much relevance as the skittles...

Fair enough, but my point was the fact the kid has every right to walk where he pleases as long as it's not private property.  He was on his way to his dad's fiance's house.

[Midas]

Fair enough, but my point was the fact the kid has every right to walk where he pleases as long as it's not private property.  He was on his way to his dad's fiance's house.

I agree 100% with this... He is not at fault for walking down the street no matter what time it is and not matter what the weather is.

I am simply saying that people make Zimmerman out to be a monster... Based on a previous encounter in which he did not act someone was burglarized. He proceeded with caution and called the police, he also acted impulsively by running after Martin for what I believe was the intention on not letting another suspicious black make get away and rob someone else... 

When he confronted Martin, Martin reacted in POSSIBLY a defensive or aggressive manner and this lead to a fight in which Zimmerman shot him in self defense...

I can think of a 100 different ways this could have happened differently but when something happens so fast people make stupid choices...

[Dorling]

Like I said before, it's a good job that Americans spend so much time making sure they're all allowed to carry guns because that way nobody gets hurt.

Take the gun out of the hand of the man who is not a fully trained officer of the law and this is just a fight.

In all honesty I can see both sides here and I believe in innocent until proven guilty, but a kid has wound up dead because a civilian suspected he was up to no good. That ain't right.