The Mosque at Ground Zero

[Gary]

This seems to be the hot button issue at the moment, and filled with controsvery with Obama saying Muslims have a right to practice their religion anywhere they want, and with Republican's taking advantage to once again attack Obama. What do you guys think?

[Rob]

Good idea in theory but it seems to me as though Obama has given in to those extremists by putting his hands up and saying "here, practise you're religion, I'm sorry".

Don't get me wrong, Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anybody else in the world, but I don't think it should be practiced on the site of where so many people lost their lives because of a few extremists.

It is unfair to think that all Muslims are extremist terrorists (I think Obama's father was Muslim, correct me if I'm wrong), but this to me looks a little disrespectful.

[Rebel Child]

Yes, Obama's father was/is Muslim I believe.

My thoughts are this, there were no doubt Muslims that were in the towers, working there, when they came down on 9/11.  Due to, as Rob put it, Exteremists.

In all of my life (a whole 29 years of it) I don't recall ever reading anyone picketing the future site of a Christian faith based building going up.  I have never, in all my time, heard of a city saying no you cannot rennovate (case in point in my home town a Catholic church just spent over 1 million dollars doing renovation on an already beautiful and huge building) while the city itself, the poor that had made a tent city just a few blocks away, and other church's were hurting for money.  We read stories about how a certain religious group is allowed to stand so many feet away from a funeral home or church or burial service of those who have served in the war, with signs stating "GOD HATES AMERICAN SOLDIERS" but they're still allowed to continue on.  Church's are allowed to picket and protest women health centers that may or may not offer abortion (in most cases they just offer pregnancy prevention aids [birth control, condoms, etc]) and no one says a thing.

During the 90's there was a big momentum of freedom of speech, when people laid down American Flags onto the ground (which is a really big no no for American Flags), made them into t-shirts, and even burned them.  While it is deplorable, and goes against proper ettiquette, they were allowed to continue to do so, as it was their freedom of speech.  Now I don't know if that has changed or not, as I"ve not kept up on it, but I know at the time, it was allowed.  Just a few years ago, while i was still in highschool - there was a company in my home town that flew an American flag upside down on it's flagpole (the world known code for 'emergency' and 'help') not because the business was in trouble, but because the guy was a dick.  People wrote letters to the alderman's, the city, the newspaper, and nothing happened, becauise it was his property.  He also flew a jolly roger flag instead of the POW MIA flag that usually flies right below.  

The people who want to build this mosque aren't looking to snub their noses at what has happened there, during 9/11 and afterward.  These are the people who want to help heal those wounds, want to make people of all faith understand exactly what the Muslim religion is about (not the fanatacism), and to help the community.  If I'm not mistaken they also plan on having an interfaith section of the building so that all walks of life when it comes to religion can come and meet together.

In my opinion, I believe that Obama was correct in this standing.  Not because he has relatives that are Muslim, not because so many say he wants to hand our country over to extremists, but because we as a country... were founded for the base principles of not wanting to be taxed to death, AND have freedom of religion.  Now not all religions I agree with, namely Scientology, but if we start telling people where they can build what churches, and what they can say and do... (as in what religion they can teach either it be Muslim, Jehova's, Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhism, etc etc)

Are we any better than the countries our ancestors came from?  Are we any better than those extremists that blew up the twin towers?

That's the big question that I think people need to ask themselves.

Now a lot of people may not agree with my thoughts on this, but that's okay.  It's just my thoughts after all.

[Triple B]

People act like this Mosque is being built in the middle of the rubble of the WTC or something...

It's 2 blocks away. 

So... my question is....

What's too close?  2 blocks is too close so... what.... 4 blocks?  Should we outlaw all the mosques within a mile?  2 miles?  10 miles?

You know what, having mosques in New York City is just too much.  Let's move them out of the city limits. 

Wait... I know... let's move them out of New York State, since there's people in the suburbs who knew people in the towers...

You know what, let's just outlaw mosques in New England altogether.  It's too close.

Well... I guess since we've outlawed them in New England, let's just get them out of the country.  After all, the Constitution was written on Christian Laws, right?  Right?

I'm not Muslim.  I don't have any Muslim friends, although I WAS roommates with a Muslim from Pakistan my first year of college.  I don't believe that the Muslim world is attempting to kill America.  I think some Muslim extremists are.

If we live in a country that people can set up a KKK rally after a young black person is killed, and live in a country that can have NRA rallies in Columbine after the shootings, and allow flag burning and hate speech....

Then you have to allow some people to build a place where they can worship in peace.

Long as they aren't making bombs or funding terrorism, they are free to worship.

[JD Storm]

while i'm all for supporting the right to religion, i actually ask if it's truly necessary to build a mosque this close to Ground Zero. i wouldn't approve of a Klan office near the spot where MLK was assassinated. i wouldn't approve of a monument to the Atomic Bomb at Hiroshima or Nagasaki. i wouldn't approve of a monument to Hitler in a heavily Jewish community. i personally view this as something that fits those scenarios.

are all Muslims evil? suppose that really depends on your personal views. do they have fanatics? better believe it. i think they've got plenty of fanatics, to be honest. i'll probably never be convinced that they entirely like us, as a whole. do they all hate us? i doubt it.


i've seen plenty of debate on what Islam stands for. while i here a lot of people say that Islam is largely a peaceful religion, i also here a lot of points brought up about how they're just as hateful as most Americans.....using scriptures right of the Koran, to help back these points up. i think i take the point that Islam is no different then any other religion.....full of just as much hate as their is peace & love. to think that they whole group is good or is nothing but evil would be bullshit.

i think i'd be a bit more convinced of the intentions of the Muslims if i saw more efforts to help turn in the extremists. i've yet to see any serious effort. if i could see a few efforts, i think it would help to settle concerns.

[Cory]

I think its stupid to but it there, plain and simple. You can build a perfectly good one, in a non controversial area. I just think they want attention and putting it near the site is their way of getting it. Its unnecessary.

[Captain Metro]

I think its stupid to but it there, plain and simple. You can build a perfectly good one, in a non controversial area. I just think they want attention and putting it near the site is their way of getting it. Its unnecessary.

I don't think I could phrase it any differently.

[Kenfucius]

The irony of all this is that the Muslim community were probably hoping to use this Mosque as a way to foster some sort of positive relations in that part of the US. Which, in my opinion, makes it somewhat ill-judged, but hardly unnecessary. Something has to be done to help heal the rifts.

The problem is that nobody is going to be able to see it for that. Far easier to turn the entire religion into scapegoats over the whole deal.

The sad fact is that too many other people look at it the way JD above does with regards to their efforts to turn over extremists. I mean, they all know each other, right? All them Muslims MUST know who their troublemakers are.

It's the same syndrome that makes people ask me when I'm over there if I know x whoever, and look at me funny when I say no.

"But you're from Scotland right? So is he! You don't know him?"

6 million people in Scotland, no I don't.

7 million Muslims in the US, what makes you think they all know the few hundred, at MOST, who want to blow something up?

The point is, the extremists inside USA keep under the radar, what people seem to forget is that, inside the American borders, many Muslims have been there for many generations, and define themselves as American first and foremost. They are, like most others, honest, hardworking people who wouldn't even think of taking part in an atrocity like 9/11.

The extremists in the US can't afford to let their nasty little sympathies become public, because the people they congregate with every day WOULD be the first people to turn them in if they shared their opinions or plans.

As for the extremists whose homes lie in the Middle East... they're as financially powerful, organised, and for the most part, insulated from the actions of their subordinates as the heads of the South American drug cartels. Asking anyone to turn them in is a joke, they'd slaughter an entire rural village just to take out someone's cousin on the way to killing that person and their entire family for trying.

The sad part is, Islam is nearly as widespread and followed as Christianity worldwide, and to be honest, the differences between the two religions are... well... the Muslims believe that Jesus was just a standard prophet instead of being the Son of God, and that they had Muhammed as an extra prophet. That is the one basic difference, everything else stems from politics, both internal and foreign. Hell, the Arabic world only accounts for 20% of the Muslim population worldwide, and yet, somehow, the whole religion is to blame for the actions of a few hard-liners in that part of the world.

It's all BS, to be honest, on both sides.

It's easier to hate and blame 'em all than take a minute to try and understand the ones who just want to get on things in peace.

[Jon Tees]

Here is the opposing viewpoint on this matter and why so many people object to this mosque being built in this location. Imagine fighting a war and being invaded by an enemy force, the enemy force takes over your city and raise their flag in victory. This sends a message that “You lost and we won.” you were defeated and vanished and we were victorious. We’re fighting a religious war of epic proportions here, so  who in the hell wants a shrine to the alleged victory of the opposing side so close to ground zero?  If they build this mosque there’s a strong chance that it’ll be vandalized, blown up or knocked down as there are people who simply won’t stand for it. They’d really be better off building it somewhere else and respecting  people’s sensitivities on the matter.

[Kenfucius]

... which is a point I would understand if, say, 9/11 was actually a legit act of war, as defined by rules of engagement, as opposed to a terrorist action by a small extremist faction.

That's the whole crux of the argument. The idea that entire religion of Islam has declared war on the US IS a figment of peoples' imagination. The sad reality is that it's starting to read more and more like too many people think that way, and think of the War on Terror as a War on Islam.

It was a criminal act, perpetrated by a couple of dozen or so scumbags, not the entire religion. The big name extremists who get on the news are little Hitlers, they garner a following based on the fact that the countries of the Middle East suffer from the same type of poverty that Germany did post WW1, and they created the Americans as a scapegoat, just like the Jewish communities were back in the day.

Explain to me how that in ANY WAY affects the right of Muslim Americans, who have been borderline persecuted for the opinions and actions of people who live 5000 miles away for the past near decade, to practice their faith how and where they choose?

ESPECIALLY when they're obviously planning to offer the chance to anyone with an open mind to see how the other shoe fits for the hundred of millions of people who don't want to blow you all up and still manage to practice Islam at the same time.

If the place ends up getting vandalized, or blown up, it ain't going to be because the Muslims nearby were the bad guys THAT day, it's going to be just another thing that gets the fuckwit terrorists riled up that got handed to them on a plate.

Fuck it, the Mosque will be built, or it won't. Personally, I think it'll be a sad indictment of the "most civilised, independent and forward thinking" country in the world if it DOESN'T.

[Triple B]

Here is the opposing viewpoint on this matter and why so many people object to this mosque being built in this location. Imagine fighting a war and being invaded by an enemy force, the enemy force takes over your city and raise their flag in victory. This sends a message that “You lost and we won.” you were defeated and vanished and we were victorious. We’re fighting a religious war of epic proportions here, so  who in the hell wants a shrine to the alleged victory of the opposing side so close to ground zero?  If they build this mosque there’s a strong chance that it’ll be vandalized, blown up or knocked down as there are people who simply won’t stand for it. They’d really be better off building it somewhere else and respecting  people’s sensitivities on the matter.

Yeah... but we aren't at war with Muslims. 

If Al Quaeda was setting up a recruitment center, I'd be with ya there.  But they aren't.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=churches+near+freedom+plaza,+new+york&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=KEJpTKrHJeDsnQfqy_HABQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&ved=0CAwQ_AU

And there's ALREADY mosques real close to Ground Zero as it is.

So.... should we tell people in Hawaii that nobody of Japanese decent can live within 1 mile of Pearl Harbor?

[Black Death]

this country was built on the idea that you are free to worship what and where you want .  So a mosque built  2 blocks from the site ... and this is a problem because what.?  It was muslims that where behind it ,  not ever muslim actually was in the attack. 

I see no problem here, I see a chance to actually go there and find out about a religion that does not promote violence , but peace, to find out about a people tainted by actions of few.   Ground Zero should be a reminder of peace , should remind people that we need to work together , everyone of us (includes muslim too) to help find a common ground , to understand one another so we can not have something like this happen again

if they want to built  it let them ... the problem is not the mosque , it just a place

it people who have close minds and close hearts  that is the problem 

[Zombie Gunn]

If you say that a mosque shouldn't be there, well how close should it be?  Where is the line drawn?  How about across the street?  Is 1 mile from ground zero okay?  Well, how about mosques that one must pass if driving to ground zero?  Maybe there just shouldn't be mosques in New York at all.  See where this is going?  Once you define a specific location that cannot have a muslim presence, the slippery slope is huge.

Did they ban christian churches from Waco, Texas?  Hell, after all the suicide bombers in Israel, do you think they banned mosques there?  Absolutely not.

The problem is, the people wanting to put this mosque at Ground Zero could quite possibly be asking for trouble as I imagine the pilgrimage there by people every year to pay respects, you gotta believe that 2% of them are dumb rednecks likely to throw a brick through their window, much as we had people vehemently opposed to Osama's "cousin" Barrack running for president.

[JD Storm]

The irony of all this is that the Muslim community were probably hoping to use this Mosque as a way to foster some sort of positive relations in that part of the US. Which, in my opinion, makes it somewhat ill-judged, but hardly unnecessary. Something has to be done to help heal the rifts.

The problem is that nobody is going to be able to see it for that. Far easier to turn the entire religion into scapegoats over the whole deal.

The sad fact is that too many other people look at it the way JD above does with regards to their efforts to turn over extremists. I mean, they all know each other, right? All them Muslims MUST know who their troublemakers are.

It's the same syndrome that makes people ask me when I'm over there if I know x whoever, and look at me funny when I say no.

"But you're from Scotland right? So is he! You don't know him?"

6 million people in Scotland, no I don't.

7 million Muslims in the US, what makes you think they all know the few hundred, at MOST, who want to blow something up?

The point is, the extremists inside USA keep under the radar, what people seem to forget is that, inside the American borders, many Muslims have been there for many generations, and define themselves as American first and foremost. They are, like most others, honest, hardworking people who wouldn't even think of taking part in an atrocity like 9/11.

The extremists in the US can't afford to let their nasty little sympathies become public, because the people they congregate with every day WOULD be the first people to turn them in if they shared their opinions or plans.

As for the extremists whose homes lie in the Middle East... they're as financially powerful, organised, and for the most part, insulated from the actions of their subordinates as the heads of the South American drug cartels. Asking anyone to turn them in is a joke, they'd slaughter an entire rural village just to take out someone's cousin on the way to killing that person and their entire family for trying.

The sad part is, Islam is nearly as widespread and followed as Christianity worldwide, and to be honest, the differences between the two religions are... well... the Muslims believe that Jesus was just a standard prophet instead of being the Son of God, and that they had Muhammed as an extra prophet. That is the one basic difference, everything else stems from politics, both internal and foreign. Hell, the Arabic world only accounts for 20% of the Muslim population worldwide, and yet, somehow, the whole religion is to blame for the actions of a few hard-liners in that part of the world.

It's all BS, to be honest, on both sides.

It's easier to hate and blame 'em all than take a minute to try and understand the ones who just want to get on things in peace.

i think you misunderstood my comments. i didn't say that all Muslims are evil. i'm not saying that they're all evil. but, if any of them are familiar with extremists, don't sit idolly by & do nothing. if a group of Christians were to commit an act of terrorism, i doubt most Christians would put up with it. same with the Jews, Budhists,  or most other religious groups.

i won't disagree that the extremists have powerful groups. that's were everyone needs solidarity throughout the world to help get rid of those groups. make it so the people in these small, rural areas don't need to live in fear. yes, it'll take a lot of work & time, but it can be done.

[RickRampage]

Okay, here is the thing. The Muslim faith didn't cause 9/11. People that have twisted sections of the Muslim religion to meet their own agenda caused 9/11. These people could have been Buddhists and they would have done what they did. Religion has nothing to do with what happened and to persecute and call for the Mosque not to be renovated or built there is simply ridiculous. Anyone who finds it insensitive truly needs to stop being stupid. Besides, Christians aren't any better. We've falsely burned people at the stake and destroyed countries claiming God wanted us to do so. It's not the faith, it's the people who twist it that are to blame. To tell some one that they can't practice their religion near ground zero is more insensitive then putting the Mosque there in the first place.