The Mosque at Ground Zero

[RickRampage]

There is enough proof that the footage was taken in Afghanistan and not America, like all the run down busted buildings made from material not used in the US.

[JD Storm]

then i guess i'll have to take your word on that. haven't seen the video, so i don't know one way or another.

[Drama Queen]

then i guess i'll have to take your word on that. haven't seen the video, so i don't know one way or another.

That footage was shown in Britain also (I was living there at the time). You cannot believe the news these days, not even with your own eyes.

It's like when CNN asked John Cena in an interview if he would ever contemplate using steroids.... the next footage showed him giving an answer that indicated he would, but in reality the answer qwas to a completely different question.

People act like that's no big deal because it's only about some stupid fake wrestler, but the same kind of thing must surely go on in media coverage on all topics including the Middle East.

[Zombie Gunn]

Rampage, as a conservative myself I have to ask... What shit are you smoking?

[RickRampage]

I am not smoking anything. All I am saying is that like with this Mosque thing, Obama said, hey, we can't stop them from practicing their religion. And then said, but I will not speak on the whether it's a smart idea to build a mosque there. That's just one example of him trying to please both sides, and his indecision is irritating. When he was a Senator, he would constantly no vote as to not offend anyone. I am sorry, but our president should be okay with offending people and standing up for what he believes in. I mean, We're still in Iraq and he wants to stay there longer now. We still have the prison in Cuba. He got the health care plan passed after people took bribes. That's right, multiple people sat in their office and waited for phone calls from the White House before they voted on the bill, not to mention all the pork in the bill that was sent to states that we democrat represented. Those are all bribes. Now, the Health Care plan will fail and put us into worse debt, so yeah. We asked for Health Care REFORM; not a new health care system.

[The Dudester]

I disagree with the idea.

I understand the whole liberal idaology of freedom of speech, religion, worship, sexual consent, etc..

BUT...

I think there is a time and a place for everything. Going to Ground Zero to build a mosque for worship of the religion that was the primary basis of the 9-11 attacks is in poor taste, poor judgement and nothing more than a cry for attention. That's all.

it's the same as Fred Phelps and his Westboro wackjobs. Sure they have the "right" to say God hates fags, God hates America all day.. but when they go to the funeral of American soldiers to "protest", I personally beleive it crosses a line in poor taste, poor judgement and bullshit cries for attention.

Building a Mosque at Ground Zero = Protest solider funeral proclaiming he died because God hates fags.

Oh, and fuck religion.

[Rebel Child]

Well to be honest, they've done an article on the 'word usage' about this mosque as well.  Some places, networks and papers are declaring it THE MOSQUE at GROUND ZERO, while others are saying "near" but no one is saying that it's actually two blocks away from the site. 

Journalism, unfortunately, is not as honest as it once was.  Reporters no longer wish to speak the truth, they wish to sell papers and air time.

You have to dig, in most articles about this, that it's called Park 51, which includes a mosque.

From the website itself:

It's Vision Statement

Park51 will be dedicated to pluralism, service, arts and culture, education and empowerment, appreciation for our city and a deep respect for our planet.  Park51 will join New York to the world, offering a welcoming community center with multiple points of entry.

With world-class facilities, a global scope and strong local roots, Park 51 will offer a friendly and accessible platform for conversations across our identities.

It's Mission Statement

New York deserves its reputation as a peerless center of arts, culture and ideas.  Park51 honors and furthers that tradition, envisioning a community center for all of us, bringing the best of the world to New York City, and New York City’s energy, diversity and aspirations to the world.  Park51 will become a model for future institutions, with its inclusive focus, outstanding facilities and dedication to social needs.  To realize this mission, Park51 will:

    * Uphold respect for the diversity of expression and ideas between all people
    * Cultivate and embrace neighborly relations between all New Yorkers, fostering a spirit of civic participation and an awareness of common needs and opportunities
    * Encourage open discussion and dialogue on issues of relevance to New Yorkers, Americans and the international reality of our interconnected planet
    * Revive the historic Muslim tradition of education, engagement and service, becoming a resource for empowerment and advancement
    * Connect New York’s communities to global ideas and trends
    * Commit to social justice, dignified human development and spiritual growth for all
    * Pursue the development of American Muslim identities, engaging New York’s many and diverse Muslim communities and promoting empowerment and compassion for all
    * Build partnerships and relationships with key actors and institutions who share our values, to address shared needs and solve common problems
    * Establish a state-of-the-art green facility that will serve as a model and inspiration for sustainable space, helping to advance sustainable living in urban contexts
    * Empower our communities with the skills and knowledge they need to advance in their various life stages
    * Provide financial assistance for those in need, offering subsidies for our programming and scholarships to reach new audiences and further our vision

It's Facilities

Park51 will grow into a world-class community center, planned to include the following facilities:

    * outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
    * a 500-seat auditorium
    * a restaurant and culinary school
    * cultural amenities including exhibitions
    * education programs
    * a library, reading room and art studios
    * childcare services
    * a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community
    * a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all

It's section and why it's choosing to do this now

Why Now?
With a history going back centuries, almost to the City’s founding, New York’s diverse Muslim communities have worshiped, served and enriched our city in countless ways.  We want to continue giving back, by realizing an institution like no other, a community center for our City, a model to the world of  dialogue and discussion and a dedicated commitment to developing individuals, families and communities.

In the spirit of tolerance and service, the Muslim community of New York envisions a world-class facility and an unprecedented community center as a gesture of our dedication to our city.  At a time of economic hardship, Park51 will constitute an investment of over $100 million of infrastructure in lower Manhattan, creating over 150 full-time jobs and over 500 part-time jobs, and providing much needed space, open to all, for community activities, health and wellness, arts and culture and personal and professional development.

We're just getting started on the road ahead.  We invite you to contact us with your questions and comments, and hope you check in again  as we move forward.

Where is Park51?

At 51 Park Place, in Lower Manhattan, just west of Church Street.  A complete renovation of the existing building is in the works, as we determine how best to serve our community in a responsible, accessible (and green) way.  Long-term plans for the space are under discussion.

Who's leading Park51?

Park51 is an independent project led by Muslim Americans. This project is separate from The Cordoba Initiative and ASMA.  The next step in developing Park51 is forming a non-profit and applying for tax-exempt status. Imam Feisal Abdul-Rauf and Sharif El-Gamal are serving as the project managers until that time.

This non-profit will be run by an Executive Director, yet to be selected, support staff, and a 23-member Board of Directors. We will choose a diverse Board of Directors, based on leadership, experience and perspective.  The Board will not be limited by religion or region.

The mosque, yet to be named, will be run by a separate non-profit whose Board of Directors will reflect a broad range of experience. While the mosque will be located in the planned final structure of Park51, it will be a distinct non-profit.

What's Cordoba House and What's Its Relationship to Park51?

Cordoba House, under the direction of Imam Feisal Abdul-Rauf, will represent a multifaith programming cluster within Park51.

Who owns the property that will become Park51?

The 51 Park Place building and lot is owned by Soho Properties, a private real estate developer here in Manhattan.

Who’s financing the development of Park51?

We’ll be establishing a non-profit entity and applying for 501 c(3) federal tax-exempt status, and we’ll pursue future development with a mix of equity, financing and contributions.

We have not yet launched our fundraising campaign. Park51 will incorporate as a non-profit and seek federal tax-exempt status. We are pledging to pursue this fundraising campaign in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations. We have hired legal counsel and top-notch auditors to oversee this process from start to finish.

We will hire security consultants to assist us in the process of reviewing potential financiers and philanthropists as we begin to establish our fundraising strategy. We will refuse assistance, financial or otherwise, from any persons or institutions who are flagged by our security consultants or any government agencies.

When will Park51 open?

Daily Muslim prayer services have been held at 51 Park Place since late 2009.  We hope to expand services and facilities in the coming months, although a firm date has not yet been set for the opening of Park51.  For more information about worship services, see our Ramadan page.

How can I become part of Park51?

From community leaders and artists to businesspeople, teachers and residents old and new, Park51 will have something for everyone -- just like New York.  We need your help to realize this vision: Please contact us with any questions or concerns, consider making a donation and check back often for further updates.

For more information on Park51, we suggest you read Altmuslim's exciting interview.  Please also see our August 3, 2010, Op-Ed published by New York Daily News.

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It took me until last night to actually find a link, or ANYTHING speaking about Park 51 in an article.    This has been going on longer than one night.

The only thing we've heard for the most part is a mosque at ground zero, mosque at ground zero, mosque at ground zero.

You don't hear about libraries, education programs, child services, recreation areas, exhibitions about different cultures.  You don't hear about the 150+ full time jobs or the 500+ part time jobs. 

Let's see here over 650 jobs full and part time, making itself available for job opportunities in a state that has been really hit by unemployment. 

-------

Like I said, journalism spins things these days to fit their own agenda.  Either it be MSNBC with their democratic slant, or FOX with their Republican slant - it doesn't matter. 

What matters is, I doubt half of these protestors realize exactly what the building would be for.

Just my two cents in the matter.

[Drama Queen]

I am not smoking anything. All I am saying is that like with this Mosque thing, Obama said, hey, we can't stop them from practicing their religion. And then said, but I will not speak on the whether it's a smart idea to build a mosque there. That's just one example of him trying to please both sides, and his indecision is irritating. When he was a Senator, he would constantly no vote as to not offend anyone. I am sorry, but our president should be okay with offending people and standing up for what he believes in. I mean, We're still in Iraq and he wants to stay there longer now. We still have the prison in Cuba. He got the health care plan passed after people took bribes. That's right, multiple people sat in their office and waited for phone calls from the White House before they voted on the bill, not to mention all the pork in the bill that was sent to states that we democrat represented. Those are all bribes. Now, the Health Care plan will fail and put us into worse debt, so yeah. We asked for Health Care REFORM; not a new health care system.

Reserving judgement on how the health care will play out, but I pretty much agree with the rest of it. I was particularly miffed when both Obama and Clinton witheld their votes on whether to give more funding to the war in Iraq because they were both running for president at the time. That is political cowaridce at it's greatest. They both finally voted after a majority was passed and the point was moot anyway.

[Rebel Child]

Uh guys?

Kinda off topic but...

There was an article on Yahoo news today saying that the last combat brigade for the US is leaving Iraq today..

[The Dudester]

RC.. that yahoo article is wrong. I know 6 guys that are getting shipped out next month to Iraq to do the exact same thing out boys are over there doing this minute.

And regarding the article you posted... good stuff. However, I still object to putting ANY religious based temples/synagogues/churchs at the site.

Education, art, ltierature, whatever... I'm fine with. But going to THAT spot to put ANY religious housing is in bad taste. While it was Muslims that did the attack, it was based off of religious beliefs.

9-1-1 is a case of religion gone horribly, horribly wrong and I oppose Ground Zero being used to pursue any religious belief at this point. If anything, Ground Zero should become OFF LIMITS to all religious bases, Muslim, Christian, Wiccan, Buddhist and it should stand as a reminder of how horribly wrong and evil religion can be.

[Zombie Gunn]

How far from ground zero is okay for you?  Draw the line somewhere.

[Rebel Child]

Are you sure it's a Combat Brigade?

Anyways.. I've been holding off on saying something -really-  that might offend people here, but...

There's a war going on in the US right now, has been for some time.  It's a war against obesity.

That's right, a war against fat, as the US is one of the obese countries out there.  They are calling the obesity of America a pandemic.

But you know.. Not once...

Not ONCE have I ever ever EVAR seen a protest against a McDonalds or a KFC.  Not once have I ever seen picket lines and screaming protestors throw up arms against a Taco Bell value menu.

Or what about the female health clinics that have been blown up by Chrisitan Pro-Life activists?  I haven't seen someone protest a Christian church be raised near the area.  (And not that's not me trying to get into a debate of pro-life v. pro choice, just pointing something out)

Now I'm not trying to trivialize what happened at Ground Zero.  It is a friggin' tragedy.  It always will be, history books from now on, history lessons in school will always talk about the day the twin towers fell.  That is a fact.  A very sad horrifying fact that will haunt all of us and generations to come.  And I will always remember where I was when the twin towers fell just like most if not all of you.

But what's even more of a tragedy is the simple fact that there is an entire people being criminalized for something that happened.  Then again it's not the first time the US has done that.  After all look at the Japanese/American internment camps.  

Or.. The way Vietnam Veterans were welcomed home, with screams of baby killer ringing through the air, shit and piss being thrown at them, and people ripping off their medals.  That was for the guys that came back alive..  The conditions in Vietnam were just as hellish as over in Iraq.  Just as scary.  But they were treated like villians.

Our country is not known for it's brotherly love.

Not one single bit.

Not one iota.

Why?  

Is it because we're big brother to everyone, we should feel entitled somehow?  

As people have pointed out, it's NOT the religion that blew up the towers... The Twin Towers that no doubt HAD MUSLIM workers there that day.  It was zealots of a religion, nothing more.

But people tend to forget the atrocities that were commited in the name of Christianity/Christendom.  Two pop into my head at this very moment - The Crusades and the Salem Witch Trials.   Sure, those things might not be as recent, but the point is still valid.

We will find in all walks of life.. Zealots.

Zealots who use their religion or their belief as a shield for the horrible things they do, instead of something that can enlighten and help heal wounds that have been scored upon a soul (not as in SOUL soul but.. soul) by an act of violence.  Religion can mend wounds, and that's what this is about in my opinion.

Zealot Aethists who want to ban the words "One nation under God" from the pledge of allegiance.

Zealot Christians (using Catholicism/Lutheran/Baptis/Mormon all in one here guys, don't kill me) who will blow up buildings, burn down land, or hell even commit mass suicide (Jonesboro/Waco come to mind), or use some belief of divinity to marry off 12 year old girls to men old enough to be their fathers.  

Zealot Judaism - Uh.. Lets look over at Israel for a moment, and leave it at that, shall we?

Zealot Wiccans - Who believe in sacrifices, and other forms of atrocity (though lets be honest here Wicca is meant to be a gentle religion)

Zealot Scientologists - Wiki Scientology, and see about some of the horrific things that have happened.

It isn't the religion, it's those who devolve themselves so much in the name of evolution and enlightenment that are scary.

But honestly, if we're goig to draw a line in the sand, on the maps of this country...

Where would we begin?  

Wiccans can't practice anywhere but a wooded area BUT they cannot harm wildlife of any sort, nor be near any children in case they're the 'bad wiccans'

Christians aren't allowed to practice their religion anywhere near any sort of medical building, nor are they allowed within 10 blocks of a Government building because the Aethists might get mad.   Oh and they can only have small 1 level buildings without basements and or crawl spaces, in case they are keeping  a cache of weapons.

Aethists are not allowed within 2 blocks of any form of religious building, period end of story.  Oh and they can't celebrate Halloween, Christmas, Thanksgiving, OR Easter.  And that goes for you agnostics as well.

Those of the Jewish persusasion are not allowed near anyone of Palestinian descent.  They cannot have a temple near anyone who lives in the area that is a Palestine or those others they do not agree with.  If one such wishes to live near a Temple, it is forbidden.

Scientologists are no longer allowed anywhere outside of their compounds, their followers are not allowed to be on television, radio, or theaters.  They will not and cannot be admitted to hospitals, as the religion believes hospital treatment is bad, and anyone seeking treatment must be asked if they are scientologists first, and if so.. Too bad.. They can't be treated.

See..

Where is the line going to be drawn next?  Are we going to start segregating our country by religion now?

I'm not a religious person.  I'm more comfortable in being an agnostic.

But you know what?  If we started segregating our country by religion...

I think I'd pack up my bags and move somewhere else.  

[The Dudester]

I say we ban religion

[Zombie Gunn]

Facepalm.

[The Dudester]

Not over, eh?