MMA News Discussion Thread

[Black Death]

one of the reasons I think is over training , they are hurting themselves before the fights by over doing it. 

I agree they need to change tactic with marketing. plus open up with more shows , honest getting a channel like HBO or Showtime to showcase fights would help. Boxing still maintains a grip because they still can get fights on those channels , something like that would help in my opinion

[Jon]

So... lost a TON of respect for Cowboy Cerrone over the weekend.

He talked about the DC/Spider fight... saying Cormier "fought like a fag".

Loved what Cormier had to say about on the MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani. Absolutely no excuse for it. I don't care that he called Cormier out about thinking the fight sucked... but do use that language. Like DC said, with everything that happened in Orlando... just uncalled for and really makes him look like a real piece of shit. And to boot... Nunes becoming the first LGBT fighter to win a UFC title.

I'm really disappointed in Cowboy and he lost me as a fan. I hope he gets his teeth kicked in next fight.

[¿PapaPancho?]

So... lost a TON of respect for Cowboy Cerrone over the weekend.

He talked about the DC/Spider fight... saying Cormier "fought like a fag".

Loved what Cormier had to say about on the MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani. Absolutely no excuse for it. I don't care that he called Cormier out about thinking the fight sucked... but do use that language. Like DC said, with everything that happened in Orlando... just uncalled for and really makes him look like a real piece of shit. And to boot... Nunes becoming the first LGBT fighter to win a UFC title.

I'm really disappointed in Cowboy and he lost me as a fan. I hope he gets his teeth kicked in next fight.

[Midas]

Ugh... most undeserving title shot ever.

Totally agree... I mean Dan Hendo is 2-2 in the middleweight division and 4-6 since his return to the UFC. He is ranked #13 in the middleweight division according to UFC.COM and is getting a title shot.

Frank Mir
Ilir Latifi
Tarec Saffiedine
Yair Rodriguez
Al Iaquinta
Frankie Saenz
Matheus Nicolau

You know what these guys have in common? They are all ranked 13 in their respective division!'

TUF Finale: Champ  Joanna Jedrzejczyk defended against CURRENT ranked #1 contender Cláudia Gadelha
UFC 200: Champ Daniel Cromier was scheduled to fight #1 ranked Jon Jones
UFC 202: Champ Robbie Lawler is fighting #4 ranked Tyron Woodley
UFC 203:    Stipe Miocic  is fighting #3 RANKED Allistair Overeem

I can go back futher if needed to even talk about Rockhold Vs Weidman, Dos Anjos Vs Alverez and etc...

Is #1 contender Luke Rockhold not good enough?
Is #2 contender Chris Weidman not able to be ready by UFC 204 in November?
Is #3 contender Ronaldo Souza and his 7-1 record in the UFC not good enough?
Is #4 contender Vitor Belfort and his 1st round KO of Dan Hnderson in November not good enough?
Is #5 contender Anderson Silva... Oh wait he just fault so okay I see... STILL November is far several months away!
Is #6 contender Robert Whittaker and his 5 fight win streak not better then Hendo's 1 fight win streak!
Is #7 contender Gegard Mousasi and his 6-3 record in the UFC and 4 Performance of the Night bonuses not good enough!
Is #8 contender Lyoto Machida... Maybe not him but he beat Hendo at UFC 157!
Is #9 contender Uriah Hall... Great young talent who is 5-2 in last 7 fights.
Is #10 contender Derek Brunson and his ONE LOST in 7 fights in the UFC not good enough for a title shot over HENDO!
Is #11 contender Tim Kennedy not good enough... Maybe! He did lose his last fight and that was 2 years ago!
Is #12 contender Thales Leites  not good enough... Well he did lose to Bisping but is 5-2 in last 7 fights!

Point I am trying to make is that if you rank the guy 13 then maybe you should give someone in the 12 slots above him a shot at the title first!

I don't like this at all!
 

[Jon]

Add in the fact that IF he wins, and he very well could. One H-Bomb and down goes Bisping.

He is planning to retire after the fight.

Regardless if he wins or loses, a guy challenging for the belt in an undeserving fashion is going to RETIRE after the fight.

I love Hendo, he's had an amazing career... but that shouldn't grant you a title shot on your way out the door. He's had more then his fair shot of chances at winning a title in the UFC. I'd be much more comfortable with UFC making this a non-title fight.

They are trying to play this off like a grudge match... they FOUGHT SEVEN YEARS AGO. SEVEN! At UFC 100. Yes, Hendo won the match with a highlight reel KO and yes, I'm sure Bisping wants to avenge it. But for pete's sake... wait until he loses the belt then have your rematch. Guarantee Bisping doesn't retain if he fights any of the top tier guys in that division... Rockhold in a 3rd match... Weidman, Jacare.

Makes the UFC look like a joke. I really hope they reconsider before making the fight official.

[Duckman]

I'm not going to get into picking apart someone's post, but at least half of those contenders that Midas has mentioned are either injured, just lost fights, or already booked.

Bisping v Hendo is a big money fight to do in the UK, to give Bisping his moment in front of his own fans, make him a bigger star in the UK and give Hendo one final fight to end a legendary career.

If he wins, we've got plenty of contenders for a 4 man tournament to crown the new champion.

I don't get why everyone is getting so upset about this fight.  It's pure sports entertainment and if you haven't worked out that's what UFC is then I don't know what to say.

Should the number one contender always fight the champion?  No.  There's so many more factors in booking a fight than just rankings.

[Flins.]

The main argument against the fight, and the point Midas was making, is that it completely nullifies the purpose of the rankings.

I personally wanted to see his fight happen a while ago, so I am happy we are getting the rematch. But there is a legitimate reason that people can be unhappy about the booking of it. Fans don't have to just simply accept that the UFC doesn't want to treat MMA like a professional sport.

[Duckman]

Fair point, but you can't hang every decision the UFC makes on the rankings.

They don't have to accept it.  But it's not going to change - UFC is a professional sport, it's just not only about number one guy fighting number 2 and number 3 fighting 4.

Making money is the main objective and Bisping v Hendo  is a bigger money fight than Bisping v Robert Whittaker etc etc...

[Midas]

I'm not going to get into picking apart someone's post, but at least half of those contenders that Midas has mentioned are either injured, just lost fights, or already booked.

Your point is moot with the fact that
#3 Ronaldo Souza just won his last fight
#7 Gegard Mousasi just won his last fight and Performance of the night

Last time I checked the champ can only fight one guy and I just named two who are coming off victories and are ranked higher then Henderson and are not currently injured. So regardless if half of my list is not suitable the two I just named are.

Bisping v Hendo is a big money fight to do in the UK, to give Bisping his moment in front of his own fans, make him a bigger star in the UK and give Hendo one final fight to end a legendary career.

Bisping is the draw in the UK! Putting him up against Henderson over more qualified opponents does nothing for gate sales in this case and giving him one last fight is fine but a title shot is not!

If he wins, we've got plenty of contenders for a 4 man tournament to crown the new champion

BUT WHY? This comment is ridiculous!

I don't get why everyone is getting so upset about this fight.  It's pure sports entertainment and if you haven't worked out that's what UFC is then I don't know what to say.

Everyone is upset because this is not SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT! Sports entertainment is made up bullshit by Vince McMahon the UFC is a SPORT with a governing body, rules and regulations and a rankings system much like boxing. So while the promoters want to maximize profit they also should be held accountable when they do something that clearly is designed to be a money grab! Fans are upset because it disregards the ranking system which is designed to give the promoter an ideal of who deserves what and gives the fighters motivation to win and move up for a potential title fight.

If you jump down the list to #13 then is spits in the face of the guys who have earned a title shot by fighting hard and proves that unless you come out and sale yourself and promote yourself you will be passed over when you have legit earned a title shot by hard work and dedication.

PROMOTION = TITLE
HARD WORK/DEDICATION = NOTHING

Is that what the UFC is trying to say? If you don't understand that then I don't know what to say!

Should the number one contender always fight the champion?  No.  There's so many more factors in booking a fight than just rankings.

LMAO first off yes! That is why he is called the #1 contender! However in the UFC we have seen the brass skip over the #1 contender to pick out a different fight but usually that is within the top 5 contenders! They went out of the TOP 10 fighters in the division! I am unsure but I do not believe ever in the history of the UFC have they ever dipped down to #13 contender for a title shot and if they did it was probably a replacement for a injured contender.

The main argument against the fight, and the point Midas was making, is that it completely nullifies the purpose of the rankings.

Exactly! If you are going to pick and choose who fights for a title based on pass accolades and preference then why have a ranking system and a #1 contender.

Fair point, but you can't hang every decision the UFC makes on the rankings. 

True... But to totally disregard the rankings and treat them like they mean nothing is also not what they should do!

UFC is a professional sport,

Dude make up your mind! Either it is sport entertainment or a professional sport! You cannot pick and choose which it is when it suits the point you are making!

Making money is the main objective and Bisping v Hendo  is a bigger money fight than Bisping v Robert Whittaker etc etc...

LMAO then why do we ever let the #1 contender fight if it is about money?

Dos Anjos just fought the #1 contender Alverez but I would have paid good money to watch that fight on PPV if he was fighting Cerrone or Pettis!

Why is the HW champ fighting Overeem next! The big money fight is against Brock Lesnar and he is ranked 8th in the division!

The point I am trying to make is that while UFC is about money they can't go around disregarding the rankings and putting the fights together that make the most money because it would make them look foolish and would cause a problem. CLEARLY because we are not seeing the fights that make the most money because they don't make sense and this is what we are seeing here. This fight makes no SENSE!

You defend it... Well actually I don't know why your defend it because in the pass the champ has faced the former champ in a rematch or someone in the top 10 ranking and this is not happening this time so as a fan of MMA you should be outraged that the UFC is allowing a fighter who intends on retiring a title shot based on pass accomplishments.

[Ty]

Souza told UFC just a few weeks ago he needed knee surgery, he was never an option for the next title shot at that point. Had he told them a different reason, he wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

Of ufcs top contenders,

Rockhold - not medically cleared
Weidman- surgery
Machida- not allowed to fight
Shogun - surgery
Souza - surgery
Silva - just fought him, just got beat by Cormier (may not get cleared again so soon)
Hall - surgery
Kennedy - semi retired

Pretty wel, the only people in front of him able to fight are whittaker (shouldn't be ranked so high, has struggled against top 20 competition outside of hall) and mousasi (who just fought). Ufc didn't have a lot of options here, I'm okay with them booking a money fight over a contender fight while most of their top ten is injured. I'd have loved to see mousasi get the shot though but he was booked so I understand.

[Cory]

So... lost a TON of respect for Cowboy Cerrone over the weekend.

He talked about the DC/Spider fight... saying Cormier "fought like a fag".

Loved what Cormier had to say about on the MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani. Absolutely no excuse for it. I don't care that he called Cormier out about thinking the fight sucked... but do use that language. Like DC said, with everything that happened in Orlando... just uncalled for and really makes him look like a real piece of shit. And to boot... Nunes becoming the first LGBT fighter to win a UFC title.

I'm really disappointed in Cowboy and he lost me as a fan. I hope he gets his teeth kicked in next fight.

I don't know man he publicly apologized and wore the gay pride UFC shirt after....pretty sure it was a slip of the tongue from a guy who is pretty much the cowboy hat wearing redneck of the UFC after he was a few beers deep. It showed a real poor lack of judgment to talk like that on a public forum but I remember Bisping called Rockhold a faggot after their post fight presser a few weeks ago and no one was really up in arms.

You're surely entitled to your opinion on this though but for me personally he slipped up on a word and apologized...good enough for me.

Totally agree... I mean Dan Hendo is 2-2 in the middleweight division and 4-6 since his return to the UFC. He is ranked #13 in the middleweight division according to UFC.COM and is getting a title shot.

Is #1 contender Luke Rockhold not good enough?
Is #2 contender Chris Weidman not able to be ready by UFC 204 in November?
Is #3 contender Ronaldo Souza and his 7-1 record in the UFC not good enough?
Is #4 contender Vitor Belfort and his 1st round KO of Dan Hnderson in November not good enough?
Is #5 contender Anderson Silva... Oh wait he just fault so okay I see... STILL November is far several months away!
Is #6 contender Robert Whittaker and his 5 fight win streak not better then Hendo's 1 fight win streak!
Is #7 contender Gegard Mousasi and his 6-3 record in the UFC and 4 Performance of the Night bonuses not good enough!
Is #8 contender Lyoto Machida... Maybe not him but he beat Hendo at UFC 157!
Is #9 contender Uriah Hall... Great young talent who is 5-2 in last 7 fights.
Is #10 contender Derek Brunson and his ONE LOST in 7 fights in the UFC not good enough for a title shot over HENDO!
Is #11 contender Tim Kennedy not good enough... Maybe! He did lose his last fight and that was 2 years ago!
Is #12 contender Thales Leites  not good enough... Well he did lose to Bisping but is 5-2 in last 7 fights!
 

#1 Rockhold is coming off a loss, wont get the shot.
#2 Weidman has been dealing with an injury and most likely his camp wouldn't have accepted a fight at 204. He can't afford to take another loss so quickly, he'll make sure everything is 100%.
#3 Jacare got fucked over for sure, hurt I think though.
#4 Belfort struggles to not piss hot before/after everyone of his fights, wouldn't be surprised to see fighters with reputations now after the Jon Jones thing to get more overlooked because of the risk.
#5 Anderson just fought.
#6 to #12 - As much as I like Mousasi, none of those guys will sell a fight or put asses in seats more so than Dan Henderson. Rematch, Retirement?, Title fight....it'll sell huge, plus a lot of them couldn't take a fight for 204.

Now I completely get how this fucks with the ideas of rankings....it does in ever sense of the way and I'll tell you I'm not completely against it. Rankings are a measurement of wins and losses and putting those who win more at the top and lose more at the bottom. It doesn't take into account how those wins and losses happened or really weighs a stoppage win much more than a KO win or something.

My point being I kinda like Hendo getting a shot over the #6-#12's at least because some of those guys would just try and take Bisping down and make it a boring fight. As a fan at a core, I want to see the best fight possible over anything. Henderson vs Bisping for me is the only fight in the division outside of Jacare/Bisping that can happen in UFC's timeline for the next Middleweight Title fight and get me excited.

If this sets a precedent that fighters need to start getting finishes and that moving up the rankings by decisioning your way to the top will get you overlooked then it may be the kick in the ass some of these dudes need.

[Duckman]

Thanks Ty.  I'd have posted that but didn't have time to look up all their current statuses.

And yes something can be both a professional sport and sports entertainment.  I think you're taking far too simplistic view of what sports entertainment is.  You know those pyros and the jet fly over they do in the NFL - sports entertainment.  All that music at basketball - sports entertainment.  Conor vs Nate Diaz - sports entertainment.  Ronaldo getting injured in the Euro final, getting subbed off and then basically managing the team from the touch line - sports entertainment.

Sports entertainment isn't just limited to WWE.  In my opinion.  The entertainment factor in all sports is always taken into account when whatever sport it may be is putting together fights, picking guys to be spokesmen for the company, getting them on TV shows and doing commercials.  The two things absolutely go hand in hand.

Also, you're coming at this and me like you're going to change things.  No need to go through each line of a post to find fault to 'prove' your opinion.  This isn't a mafia game!  And no, I don't get out raged about this stuff, life is far too short.

Anyway, I'm sure UFC know what they're doing.  Certainly more than any of us.

[Cory]

As much as I enjoy the conversation, Sam has the mic drop. The UFC know what they're doing and are more informed than any beat writer or any fan.

- They created their own 'UFC Rankings' a few years ago and I don't believe they'd want to firmly shit all over an aspect of their company that they HEAVILY promote throughout the shows by ignoring them.

- They decided that Bisping was going to defend the title at 204. The Middleweight division has been hit by a huge injury bug and as Ty kinda elaborated a vast majority of the fighters couldn't make the 204 show. Again, I'm kinda irked that Jacare and Mousasi in particular are getting passed over but clearly they wouldn't be ready in UFC's eyes for 204.

- Bisping vs Henderson is the $$$ fight, it stands to earn the UFC and their new ownership the most money, especially from casuals. People that already watch MMA would buy the PPV because its a title fight...the casuals can get behind the storyline already between Hendo and Bisping.

Best case scenario: If this 204 card is in UK or wherever it means Bisping HAD to fight on 204. None of the other contenders not coming off a loss higher than Dan Henderson could take the fight and now we're getting an EXCELLENT fight in Hendo/Bisping II. Winner of that fights Jacare, he gets his title shot just later.

Worst case scenario: UFC wants the $$ fight and are making this fight happen sooner than later while everyone more deserving is on the shelf so they can get this fight between Hendo and Bisping.

[Jon]

I don't know man he publicly apologized and wore the gay pride UFC shirt after....pretty sure it was a slip of the tongue from a guy who is pretty much the cowboy hat wearing redneck of the UFC after he was a few beers deep. It showed a real poor lack of judgment to talk like that on a public forum but I remember Bisping called Rockhold a faggot after their post fight presser a few weeks ago and no one was really up in arms.

You're surely entitled to your opinion on this though but for me personally he slipped up on a word and apologized...good enough for me.

I understand he apologized... but that shit is rooted deep in him. There is a reason he used the word, because it's part of his everyday vocabulary and that to me, just isn't right. To me, it's the equivalence of saying the n-word.

And I don't like Bisping either. Has always been a ripe piece of shit.[/quote]

#1 Rockhold is coming off a loss, wont get the shot.

Souza told UFC just a few weeks ago he needed knee surgery, he was never an option for the next title shot at that point. Had he told them a different reason, he wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

Of ufcs top contenders,

Rockhold - not medically cleared
Weidman- surgery
Machida- not allowed to fight
Shogun - surgery
Souza - surgery
Silva - just fought him, just got beat by Cormier (may not get cleared again so soon)
Hall - surgery
Kennedy - semi retired

Pretty wel, the only people in front of him able to fight are whittaker (shouldn't be ranked so high, has struggled against top 20 competition outside of hall) and mousasi (who just fought). Ufc didn't have a lot of options here, I'm okay with them booking a money fight over a contender fight while most of their top ten is injured. I'd have loved to see mousasi get the shot though but he was booked so I understand.

Souza said he'd be good to go in November. UFC 204 is scheduled for October tentatively. Now Jacare has to wait for their fight and then probably a good amount of time afterwards before their fight is booked. And Weidman said he will be good to go in November for UFC 205. So yeah, sorry the injuries is no excuse. Both Jacare and Weidman have spoke out about the unfairness and joke of the ranking system. And Rockhold would be to go for a rubber match for UFC 204.

And I think Hendo/Spider would sell so much more as a fight. 2 legends in a stand up battle. And yes, Spider would be good to go in October. And that should be the fight Hendo should go out on.

@Sam (Didn't want to clog the post up by quoting both you and Cory's replies)

Aspects of UFC and sports in general are sports entertainment... BUT not the fight itself. That is sports competition. In this case... I really think UFC didn't realize the backlash the decision was going to really cause. Not only among their fan base, but among their fighter base. 

@ Cory

But they did shit all over their rankings. That's exactly what they have done. When they have their top contenders good to go for 204 (Rockhold/Yoel) or 205 (Jacare/Weidman). Sorry there is no excuse there to have Bisping fight Hendo because of course Bisping wants that fight, that fight is his best chance of retaining the belt. And UFC has people coming off a loss fight in a rematch right away for the belt... so that is a piss poor excuse.

Sure Bisping/Hendo 2 is a $$$ fight. But I think Bisping/Rockhold 3 is a bigger $$$ fight and that is available to them, but it seems like UFC is trying to do Bisping a favor here.

Don't like it and depending on the rest of the card, I might not even watch it. I hope they pair it up with a strong co-main.

[Flins.]

I agree that Sports Entertainment in it's own entity is a part of any sport, but with the nature of fight sports where fights are booked, it leans more towards it being orchestrated. For example, there is a big difference between Bisping vs Henderson, to Bisping vs Rockhold. With the latter being something that happened due to a short notice injury and lack of a higher ranked contender, this lead to Bisping finally getting his chance at the title and well we all witnessed the drama of that fight. The same can be said of McGregor vs Diaz. However, the rematch is different, and with a mandatory challenger in Edgar, it should not have come first.

The fight will be entertaining, no doubt about it, and it will draw interest. But Henderson was not the only option, given the UFC can pick and choose when these defences occur.

I think a mandatory challenger would be a good option in the UFC, with clearly advertised Title Eliminator fights. But there is a reason we don't get these, and that is mostly due to the UFC wanting to govern the sport to a point where that edge of Sports Entertainment that borders a legitimate sport becomes blurred.

With that all being said, I am looking forward to the fight haha. Despite how heartbreaking another H-Bomb knockout would be.