52 Goals in 50 Games

[Cory]

Messi is the greatest.

Not only for scoring, but he doesn't dive and he's relentless trying to get to goal.

We're witnessing the greatest player in the sports history, watch his second goal v/s Real today.

[Kirk]

There's no doubt that he is a great player. I'd like to see what kind of numbers he would get in a more competitive league, though (I think most of us would get 20 goals in that league).

[Cory]

I donno, I see the EPL being the only more competitve league, maybe Serie A is on their level.

[Adam Wrong]

Balls hes the greatest. Hes good but hes no maradona, pele, best, moore etc. Hes part of a team with great supply. Stick him in either serie a or epl or even the bundesliga and he would be anonymous. It happens time and time again. Skilful flat track bully. Stick him against any defensive team and hes nothing special

[Flins.]

Kinda agree with MDK, he did nothing in that game until they were a man down nad their entire set-up was dis-jointed. He is the best player out there at what he does, but the reason he scores so many goals is because of the team he plays in, and the league that team plays in. 11 in 11 Champions League games is pretty impressive, but you only need to see the run they have had so far, the only tough game was last nights and they were failing pretty miserably until the red card.

He went down in my opinion throughout the World Cup, was his chance to show his qualities away from Barcelona. And he didn't.

[Smash INC]

I remember someone making a point about how Serie A is the Scottish Premier on crack, insofar as the two teams that are in the running for the title are leagues ahead of Rangers/Celtic and whilst the overall level of football is better it is still a two horse race.

Messi is a hell of a player though and doubtless that he's up with the best of the current crop, maybe not THE greatest but close at least.

[Adam Wrong]

Do you mean primera smash?

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

Messi is the greatest.

Not only for scoring, but he doesn't dive and he's relentless trying to get to goal.

We're witnessing the greatest player in the sports history, watch his second goal v/s Real today.

You can pick decent fantasy teams mate...but you know fuck all about what makes the greatest player of all time...which you have proven on more than one occassion with some pretty sweeping statements!

[Cory]

I'll take Messi against any other player in any generation.

Pele, Zidane, Cryuff, any of them.

I find it hard to ever get in a football argument with an English 'bloke' because bias'ness is in your blood, but IN MY OPINION at only 23 and where he's at scoring, 48 last season and 52+ this one, Messi if not already one of the greatest, (I think he is the best pure footballer and complete we've seen since Zidane in his prime) after 10 more years it'll be ignorant if he keeps this pace to say he isnt.

And I'd think it would take him a while to adjust to the size of defenders in other league, but Messi is strong on the ball. A very low center of gravity, the guy does dive like C.Ronaldo, and has phenomenal balance on the ball. I think he'd replicate his talents anywhere in the world.

'anonymous?' ahahahahahha, MDK are you on crack? Have you ever seen him play in Champions League? I can't think of many defenders in the EPL that could compete with Messi/shut him down to make him anonymous. Maybe someone with pace like Ashley Cole/Ivanovic or a top guy such as Terry/Vidic.

Call me crazy, I say 99 goals in 103 games in this era where players are more athletic then ever before, as opposed to when Pele played where the players were athletically a lot different, IMO makes him AT THE LEAST on a very good pace to become the greatest. LIGA doesn't have the best defence in the world, but Im not too big on my 50-70's Brazilian league, but In Pele's case, I doubt that league was filled with stacked teams after stacked teams.

[Cory]

He's 23. Players on average dont hit their prime till 26-30.

Thats scary to think if he can stay injury free.

[Cory]

btw, this is coming from someone whose all time favorite player is Roy Keane, and I hate spanish football.

[Adam Wrong]

Cory example 1, the world cup. Up against a defence who can close him off and shut him out, he was anonymous. He was a nobody in the match with Real until they had a man sent off.

Same with CR7 - Players shut him out and he was nothing.

And how is it remotely bias when I list at least 4 players better than him and only 1 is english... Brazilian league was and still is superb. A much higher standard than people understand. They have players in lower grade teams who would fit easily into any national side. Zidane and Cruyff both honed their trade in some of the toughest leagues defensively and dominated while Best was in an era of crunching tackles and no diving and still managed to dance around everyone and make them look like twats.

Fact is, you listed defenders who would and could deal with him and have done effectively. There are many more who can which shows he's not as good as you think he is

[Cory]

Didnt players smoke back in the 50's and 60's?

If a legend like Beckenbauer admitted to smoking in his Barca days, odds say he wasn't the only one, which reflects on the athletes of that era to the ones in this.

But I admit that at the WC Messi did underperform. He still had moments of excellence with his ball movement, but he didn't fill the net. The only thing I could say as a defence is maybe he wasn't used to playing with the squad? They didn't even bring Zanetti or Cambiasso so that team was shit from the get go.

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

Off the top of my head...

Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, Pele, George Best...

4 players there better than Messi...

To call at lad at the age of 23 the greatest player of all time is crazy. While you might think I am biased or MDK is biased because we are English, I think you are misinformed because you are Canadian and you havent taken the time to look into what these players have done. If anyone's arrogance or biased opinion blinds them its you since you cant refer to football outside of stuff you have seen in the last 5 years on TV. Sorry mate, out of North Americans you know a bit about the beautiful game I will give you that, but the comment this lad is the best ever is fricking ignorant when the basis of this is goals he has scored...and you havent taken the time to look into what these players have done.

If we are looking at pure goals...then Marco Negri's one season with Rangers effectively means he invented the game of football.

[Cory]

Its personal preference. You can count  a combination of leadership, what they did for the game, their ability to make others around them better, the era that they played in, all those things around them to what YOU think makes the best player of all time. And George Best is a legend and rightfully deserves to be in the conversation for GOAT, but you dont think that for you Ian that the fact he played for Man U you dont have any bias towards him?

And to the world cup thing, Pele didn't do much in the 62' WC (injured eventually). I do think Messi needs to prove himself at the next WC to solidify himself as the GOAT

I think that with:

A) the athletes are much more conditioned/stronger/faster on an average basis currently then when guys like Pele/Best played, which makes in in turn, harder to score. The only thing the modern game has going against it is the football and how their made (lighter/aerodynamic, ect). The fact that he's been able to tally so many goals and by playing in Champions League (I dont think Pele ever did) and has been able to score against the best teams in the world (11 goals in 11 games) is one.

B) I think what Messi does for the game is great. More recently in the last 10 years, the majority of the top footballers in the world ala C.Ronaldo, Drogba, Robben, Torres have been known as divers. They give the sport a bad name, and give footballers at ANY level a bad name. Messi doesn't dive. Actually his refusal to dive and try and keep the play going seen countless times has done wonders for the game. A guy that plays the game it was meant to be played like how Best/Pele/Zidane.

I think that when guys you've mentioned careers were over, they were looked back upon as all 'contenders' for the GOAT in comparison to those greats before them. I think the fact that at 23 Messi is already considered by most to be, and to quote Smash "maybe not THE greatest but close at least" before he's even hit his prime, must say something to even the naysayers.