52 Goals in 50 Games

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

I dont doubt he is a fantastic player, he's just not the greatest of all time. You cannot call someone that till it's said and done in my opinion...Jordan was never considered the greatest of all time until he won a number and I mean a number of NBA Championships. Its more difficult as a footballer given the competition differences, but what about guys like Ryan Giggs. Constantly the top of his game and has won numerous Championships with Manchester United as well as still being an active outfiled player in the Premiership at the age of 37. I will nick this from wikipedia because this tells a story for me:

Honours

Club
Manchester United Premier League (11): 1992â€"93, 1993â€"94, 1995â€"96, 1996â€"97, 1998â€"99, 1999â€"2000, 2000â€"01, 2002â€"03, 2006â€"07, 2007â€"08, 2008â€"09
FA Cup (4): 1993â€"94, 1995â€"96, 1998â€"99, 2003â€"04
Football League Cup (4): 1991â€"92, 2005â€"06, 2008â€"09, 2009â€"10
FA Community Shield (: 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010
UEFA Champions League (2): 1998â€"99, 2007â€"08
UEFA Super Cup (1): 1991
Intercontinental Cup (1): 1999
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2008

Individual
PFA Young Player of the Year (2): 1991â€"92, 1992â€"93
PFA Team of the Year (6): 1992â€"93, 1997â€"98, 2000â€"01, 2001â€"02, 2006â€"07, 2008â€"09
PFA Team of the Century (1): 1997â€"2007[62]
Bravo Award: 1993
PFA Player of the Year (1): 2008â€"09
BBC Sports Personality of the Year (1): 2009
BBC Wales Sports Personality of the Year (2): 1996, 2009
Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year (1): 1997â€"98
Jimmy Murphy Young Player of the Year (2): 1990â€"91, 1991â€"92
Premier League 10 Seasons Awards (1992â€"93 to 2001â€"02): Overall Team of the Decade
UEFA Champions League 10 Seasons Dream Team (1992 to 2002): 2002
Wales Player of the Year Award (2): 1996, 2006
Premier League Player of the Month (3): September 1993, August 2006, February 2007
Goal of the Season (1): 1998â€"99
English Football Hall of Fame Inductee: 2005

Orders and special awards
OBE for services to football: 2007[2]
Honorary Master of Arts degree from Salford University for contributions to football and charity work in developing countries: 2008[63]
Freedom of the City of Salford: 7 January 2010.[64] He is the 22nd person to receive the Freedom of the City of Salford.[64]

Records

Ryan Giggs with the Premier League trophy Has won a record 11 top division English league titles as a player, and only Manchester United player to have winner's medals from all 11 Premier League title wins.
Most Premier League appearances for an outfield player.[65]
Most Premier League assists (accurate records are only available from 2002 onwards).[66]
Only player to have scored in all 19 Premier League campaigns since its inception.[5]
Only player to have scored in eleven consecutive Champions League tournaments (1996â€"97 to 2006â€"07) Raúl is the only who has scored in fourteen consecutive Champions League tournaments (1997â€"98 to 2010â€"11).
Only Manchester United player to have scored in fifteen different Champions League tournaments.
Most goals by a British player in the Champions League/European Cup proper history, and 14th overall (not including preliminary rounds).[67]
Most appearances by a Manchester United player.
First player to score 100 Premier League goals for Manchester United.
Second midfielder to have scored 100 goals in the Premier League for a single club (first being Matt Le Tissier).
One of four Manchester United players to win two Champions League Medals (others are Paul Scholes, Gary Neville and Wes Brown).
Oldest (37 years, 148 days) player to score in the Champions League, when he scored against Schalke 04 on 26 April 2011.


I look at Lionel Messi's and although impressive for the age of 23...it doesnt remotely compare given the standard of the league he plays in nor the fact it's nowhere near what Giggs has done...does that make Ryan Giggs the greatest player ever? I wouldn't have said so, but he has a stronger case than blinking Lionel Messi and this has nothing to do with me being a United fan nor my mention of Bobby or Georgie Best before.

Messi will be best judged when his career is over and when he can find himself out of Barcelona in a more competitive league I think you got more of a case.

[Flins.]

I think that with:

A) the athletes are much more conditioned/stronger/faster on an average basis currently then when guys like Pele/Best played, which makes in in turn, harder to score. The only thing the modern game has going against it is the football and how their made (lighter/aerodynamic, ect). The fact that he's been able to tally so many goals and by playing in Champions League (I dont think Pele ever did) and has been able to score against the best teams in the world (11 goals in 11 games) is one.

B) I think what Messi does for the game is great. More recently in the last 10 years, the majority of the top footballers in the world ala C.Ronaldo, Drogba, Robben, Torres have been known as divers. They give the sport a bad name, and give footballers at ANY level a bad name. Messi doesn't dive. Actually his refusal to dive and try and keep the play going seen countless times has done wonders for the game. A guy that plays the game it was meant to be played like how Best/Pele/Zidane.

I just wanted to make the point that this works both ways. The game has developed with players going over far too easy, and though Messi does his best to stay on his feet, he goes down quite often. The fact that players will dive at the slightest touch plays to Messi's style of play, he runs direct at players, something he is great at, but the fact is that once he gets in the box, no-one will touch him. If they did, he would go down, it's just part of the game now and it makes it much easier for players such as Messi & C. Ronaldo to create themselves chances in the box.

In my opinion, he's pretty one dimensional. I have personal preference for classing greats footballers as the guys that create and run games, players like Zidane & Giggs. I would personally put players like that above Messi, but that's just personal opinion.

[Cory]

Fair enough Ian, your opinion makes perfect sense.

I guess I'm just "calling" it now (him being the best) whether then wait till his career is over and hes done.

and to Mundo, yes Messi falls, because he's #1 target for fouls. He goes down on tackles that would bring Roy Keane down. But the fact that he can run into/near the box and appears to have more ball strength then say Drogba who falls like he was shot, speaks to the way he plays the game.

Messi also doesn't act like a fairy after he gets fouled, and a call isnt. He gets back up and gets in the play, unlike C.Ronaldo who will stay on his ass looking at the ref while the other team counterattacks. Great character and attitude towards the game.