1.12

[T-Bonizzle]

1.2? Because I remember reading reports that it was hanging about a 0.8

[Gary]

I checked before making the post.

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

Did you also check that the Slammy RAW did a 3.06...

Your asking TNA to do a 2.2 and RAW can barely get over a 3 for one of its unique RAW episodes.

I rest my case about the migration from wrestling...

[Gary]

Did you also check that the Slammy RAW did a 3.06...

Your asking TNA to do a 2.2 and RAW can barely get over a 3 for one of its unique RAW episodes.

I rest my case about the migration from wrestling...

I would've if this was a TNA vs WWE or who's doing better ratings or what not, buts it about the ineffectiveness of Eric and Hogan.

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

I would've if this was a TNA vs WWE or who's doing better ratings or what not, buts it about the ineffectiveness of Eric and Hogan.

Seeing as the main counter argument to your argument is that Bischoff and Hogan and maintained ratings in a market with significant ratings drop off, its fairly relevant.

[Hondo]

Seeing as the main counter argument to your argument is that Bischoff and Hogan and maintained ratings in a market with significant ratings drop off, its fairly relevant.

To be completely fair, they weren't brought in to "maintain" ratings, they were brought in to "boost" ratings.

Anyways, carry on.

[Black Death]

but Eric and hogan were hired to bring TNA to the next level ... too take them from the 1 and reach that level of 2 or 3 or maybe  4  

Yes the WWE has drop from what they did were pulling  way back as ten years ago ...which  in truth alot of cable shows would kill to have there ratings right now.

You can take a look at TNA this past year with Hogan and Eric and say that have not done anything to help  TNA ... They seem to have done more harm than good  to the company ...  and it shows no sign of getting better.

Also  they have not maintained the same levels all year , this 1.12 has come recently , Like B said they are only getting back the people they lose  with the move to Monday night.    

It boils down to after a year under the  control of Eric and Hogan ... TNA is not getting better and the duo have not furfilled there  promise ... now there still a year left I think on there contracts ... let hope for a better 2011 for them,  

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

To be completely fair, they weren't brought in to "maintain" ratings, they were brought in to "boost" ratings.

Anyways, carry on.

I know that Jack and same goes for BD who has said the exact same thing. My point being in the last year specifically we have seen MMA PPV buyratings rocket. It's the hip and cool thing, I believe Heyman even mentioned about the gravitation from wrestling to MMA from old wrestling fans.

I don't consider them maintaining ratings only a success by any stretch, what I do say is compared to

a. the market
b. the competitor THEY TRY and emulate

They have done a much better job in 2010 and it seems to me unfair to constantly be harping on why Hogan and Bischoff havent turned a 1. something to a 2. something when MMA has blasted wrestling a new one as a whole, specifically the biggest fan base in the wrestling world WWE.

[GM Franchise]

To be completely fair, they weren't brought in to "maintain" ratings, they were brought in to "boost" ratings.

Anyways, carry on.

The only thing they boosted were their bank accounts. The ratings are the same as when they got there so basically there's been no change for a year.

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

If I put my business hat on given the surge in MMA, I think for any wrestling business in America that is considered (WWE) or trying to make itself mainstream (TNA)....this has to be a year of consolidation. I know there has been some success with DGUSA and ROH in 2010, but I don't put either of them in this category because they are more niche I would say.

Did TNA set out for a year of consolidation, absolutely not. Has their hand been forced? I think so. They would have wanted to attack the WWE's audience as a reason to shift to TNA, with WWE's demographic shrinking rapidly in the United States in favour of things such as MMA.

Why shift to a more violent and racier wrestling product when you can go to MMA and you know the violence is real?

That for me is the difference right there is TNA would have lost those fans to MMA as well, but for the people who watch WWE as well that changed channels because they were interested in this promotion that claimed to be a rival of WWE, because this promotion had a few nostalgia stars and the other stars WWE didn't employ. They wouldn't have got that channel switch or someone adding a second wrestling company to watch if Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles and Samoa Joe were the three big names. They need those guys to be part of the puzzle no doubt, but its a lot easier to sell people who like cookies and cream icecream, cookie dough ice cream than strawberry shortcake...no matter how good the later is perceived.

[Gary]

Thing is Ian while MMA has affected wrestling in some way, it hasn't completely WWE's ratings while down have been pretty consistent that past 5 years (in the high 2s low 3) so fans aren't leaving in droves, just that the casual fans that watched in the late 90s completely gave up and are now probably watching MMA or something else. But there are still wrestling fans, and from what I see WWE nor TNA outright compete on any any night UFC so they aren't in direct competition. Even more WWE still has that core of hardcore wrestling fans who will never leave, but why haven't they shifted to TNA? Why haven't Hogan and Eric been able to take the core group of wrestling fans to TNA? They did it in 1996 with the nWo, and then the casual fans came. If Eric or Hogan could have caused the ratings to go up at least to 2.2 or 2.5 it would show that they did get some of the hardcore wrestling fans (who will watch wrestling no matter what) to stick with TNA. They did get their interest with the debut of Hogan and Eric last Jan, but they didn't find a reason to make them stay.

[Duckman]

This'll be my one and only post in this thread, because it’s nearly Xmas and the TNA debate has been going on all year!  So bear with me if this is really long!  Just want to get a few alternative ideas in the mix!

TNA hasn't lost any fans or gained any fans this year, in fact they haven’t lost or gained any fans in about 4 years.  They still have the same core audience of approx 1 million people watching Impact every week.  Plus the 8,000-10,000 or so who buy their PPVs (if they're lucky).

WWE also maintained their core TV audience over the past 5 years but have lost massively on PPV because they run too many shows, they haven’t really built any new stars since Cena, Orton and Batista and their PPVs are double the price they should be.  Especially their B shows.

Both TNA and WWE are working from a business model that is about 5/8 years out of date and needs to be revamped if they're going to get out of the mire they're both in.

If anything, with UFC being on Spike, TNA should benefit from some cross promotion thanks to UFC.  However the only time I've seen someone from TNA on a UFC programme was Hogan hyping that TNA was going to war with WWE when he joined to 'take them to the next level' and well...

To be honest, personally, I think the UFC argument is not a reason for TNA doing nothing this year, it's an excuse.  Same for WWE and wrestling has been full of excuses for too long.

There's still at least 5-7 million people in the US who will watch wrestling every week, plus a huge number of fans who don't enjoy WWE's kiddie product or TNA's WCW revival/clusterfuck product.  They didn't all go to UFC and if some of them did go, they didn't go overnight.  They're still out there, they just don't like the product either company is producing.

Don’t forget, while UFC draws big on PPV they still only get 1.2-1.5 ratings for both The Ultimate Fighter and the shows they have on Spike.

UFC's surge began in 2005 thanks to the Ultimate Fighter TV show.  A new, fresh and exciting TV product that capture the imagination of a lot of people, both wrestling and non wrestling fans.  The kind of reality show that a wrestling promotion like WWE could do in a heartbeat and do in any way they saw fit because unlike MMA they can book the finish of anything they do.

What did TUF do?  Simple, it let the public see the personalities of the fighter.  It set up a story of 12-14 young, hungry fighters, living with each other and also fighting for the chance of a six figure contract and a place on the roster of the UFC.  They were fighting for their dream basically.  People could emotionally invest in the fighters and their struggles.  Just the same as people used to do with wrestling.

People will watch wrestling if it's presented in a form they want to watch.  The issue right now is neither WWE or TNA can grow their audience in the US because of the direction the respective companies have taken and their complete and utter resistance to any kind of change to what they do.  WWE don't need to because they make enough money off the kids and from new overseas markets who haven’t been oversaturated like the US.  TNA can't because they're run by someone who has been worked by carney pros and is now too far down the rabbit hole to turn around.

I'm not saying WWE or TNA need a TUF type show.  Look what WWE did with NXT.  They used it to make fun of indy workers and their internet fan base and to be honest, after all that I gave up any interest.  Granted Nexus came from NXT but that is now fucking dead thanks to how they booked Cena.  They were far too scared to show Cena being weak in any way that it killed Nexus dead, drew no more money, drew no more new fans and NOTHING CHANGED.

That's the biggest thing in wrestling for the past few years.  Nothing changes.  I read a very telling comment from Ken Anderson the other day.  He still gets a copy of the WWE magazine sent to him every month and him and his wife play a game of guessing who is on the front cover.  Since he was fired from WWE there’s only been 5 different people on the cover of the WWE magazine.  The same faces in the same places all the time!

In UFC, even with Anderson Silva and GSP dominating their divisons, there's still things changing all the time.  Brock's rise and fall being the big story this year as well as the merge with WEC which will bring new, exciting fighters to the UFC audience.
At the end of the day, saying that UFC took WWE viewers or TNA viewers is too simplistic.  The UFC audience is made up of hardcore fans who have been there since before TUF.  Plus a fuck ton of more casual fans who came on board thanks to season one of TUF.  Then there's the boxing fans sick of the bs that has choked the life out of that sport.  Then the fans who just like violence and athletic competition who probably watch most sports.  Then you've got the wrestling fans who are too old for WWE and too smart for TNA. 

UFC simply promote their product in a better way than either WWE or TNA.  Dana White has spoken on numerous occasions about how much he learnt from Vince in terms of promotion.  They only difference now is that while White took the lessons and improved on them, Vince is still doing the same shit he's been doing forever...and there's no competition to make him change track.  TNA just have so many fundamental problems from the top down that I could write for another five hours on them!

Wrestling is full of excuses.  The economy is down so their PPV buys are suffering.  UFC is taking their fans.  Top stars have retired or got injured.  And on and on it goes.

Wrestling has forgotten what made it in the first place.  Two guys fighting over something, presented in a way that allows the audience to care about the guys fighting and the issue they’re fighting over, which eventually leads them to a big fight to settle their issue...sound familiar?  It should, it's what UFC does.  Only difference is wrestling can manipulate everything involved in their product and so should be able to tell a better story that people can emotionally invest in.

Wrestling has been in this position before and it came out of it thanks to a change in the product.  A change in the way they presented their TV.  A change from a stale product to something fresh, new and exciting that attracted a whole new generation of fans.  Just like UFC did with TUF â€" the company was pretty close to folding before TUF was picked up by Spike. 

Wrestling will do it again and come back, they’ll find that new formula or star that will drag them back and bring in new fans but it just might take a few years of UFC kicking their ass and taking all the money before that change comes.

Peace

Duckman