The sad story of Shannon "Daffney" Spruill

[Flins.]

But when you choose to do a job such as wrestling, regardless of rights and such, you're choosing a career that is dangerous so you know what you're getting into. My point was that the article made her come across as a victim because she was forced into doing a bump and was injuerd from it, thats the nature of the job and surely that happens everywhere. In regards to employers liability insurance and her medical costs, I honestly don't know how their contracts work, do you? I can't imagine it's the same as someone who works at Tesco's because you are less likely to get injured doing that job.

[Duckman]

It's all the same.  That's my point.  ALL employees doing ANY job have the right to protection from injury, a safe working environment and then compensation and legal recourse should something go wrong.

You don't go into wrestling knowing that one day a sloppy, 350 pound guy, is going to chokeslam you backwards off the ring apron, through a table bridging the guard rail and ring that's covered in barbwire. 

If she was told, not forced, but told as part of her job, to do that and she got hurt, it's not her responsibility.  It's her employers responsibility to ensure what they're asking of her is safe and if she's hurt, she's compensated.

If she worked in Tesco and they asked to her climb a ladder that wasn't properly secured or wobbled, they'd be liable if she got hurt.

Same as TNA are liable here.

It's the law, not a question of what's dangerous and what's not.  If it was the case, no one would ever do a job that had a high level of risk because there would be nothing to protect them should something go wrong. 

You will never hear the Court say, "you knew climbing that wobbly ladder in Tescos was dangerous and yet you still did it because your boss told you too, you're an idiot and you'll get no compensation for your loss and injury."

Yes the employee has a duty of care to themselves, but the ultimate duty of care is with the employer and from what I've seen and read, TNA failed in that duty and should compensate her accordingly.

Same reason WWE settled with Owen Hart's family.  They had a duty of care to protect him and ensure what they asked him to do, which he didn't want to do, was done safely.  They failed in that duty and so were liable to compensate his family.  Same thing is true here...although to a lesser degree obviously.

Peace

Duckman

[Flins.]

Gah, I've got no counter-argument. It'd be interesting to see what is in her contract though.

[Mike Wilkins]

Daffney has a degree of responsibility here, as does TNA.

At some point there is an assumption of risk on the person who is performing the stunt.  TNA has serious fault for asking her to take the Abyss stunt, and Daffney has a degree of fault for agreeing to it.  It sounds like she was talked into it and did it because she wanted to stay employed, which is understandable.

We all do that.  If our boss tells us to do something stupid, we can say no.  We may lose our job.  On the flip side, if we go ahead and do it, and we do get hurt, our boss is responsible for it.

Making Daffney work with a talentless, untrained performer like Rosie Lottalove was absolutely TNA's fault.  There was no way for Daffney to know exactly what she was getting into with that.  There was no degree of fault on Daffney and there was no assumption of risk.  Daffney was simply going out there to work a match with what she thought was a trained professional, but instead she got hurt by someone who should have never been in that ring.

TNA is 100% responsible for what happened in that match.

This is the difference between WWE and TNA.  If someone gets seriously injured in WWE, they will be taken care of.  Why don't we hear about the suffering of Christopher Nowinski and Darren Drozdov beyond the good work that Nowinksi is doing now with the Sports Legacy Institute?

Because WWE is taking care of them...  WWE recognizes the degree of fault that they have, and they didn't even try to get out of it.  They paid the medical bills, and they continue to pay the performers. 

These are the kind of things that workers don't think about when they sign up with an amateur company like TNA.  They are the #2 company by default, but the degree of separation between the quality of the two companies is astronomical.  WWE is a billion dollar company that has no problem with sending a check for $10,000 per month to a performer who was injured in the ring and may never walk again.

TNA can't afford to do that.

So instead of having your medical bills covered, you have to sit at home and "hope" they will be covered.

This would not happen in any other company in the United States.  They would find themselves sued into bankruptcy if they tried to deny medical benefits to an injured employee.

[Black Death]

jack...  you post has some credence ... but the problem is she was told that she would be cover by Terry Taylor, Terry use his friendship with her to ask her to do a spot that she was not comfortable with ... being that she trusted him and she did the spot and when she got hurt . he and tna blew her off .


this comes do to basic decently

[Drama Queen]

Based on answers.com, however reliable that is, stuntmen get health insurance. Stuntmen are probably the closest thing I can think of to being similar to a wrestler, as they are paid to perform in dangerous and pain inducing jobs. If they get insurance, then so should wrestlers, in my opinion.

That said, being told to take a spot she didn't want to take, and giving in, is all her fault. If her boss asked her to sell drugs, and put pressure on her to do it, then when she went to jail tried to blame the pressure of her job, no one would care. If my boss tells me to lift things with my back while twisting in a jerking motion because it will get the job done faster...I can say no...If I say ok, and then get hurt, it's a bit unfair for me to suddenly say 'it's your fault' But that's my personal opinion.

Are you fucking serious? If my boss asks me to lift something heavy, sure I have the right to say no. I have to the right to not get selected for any available ovetime and promotion, I have the right to miss out on any merit increases which are always subjective, I have the right to not be able to afford anything more than the bare basics for my kid. I have the right to slide closer to the wrong end of the list the next time the company announces X amount of lay-offs.

Yeah, I have these rights, it's kind of hard to afford to use these rights in todays economy. God Bless you if you can.

[Galaxy]

For the record, there is talk this Daffney lawsuit could cause a ton of problems between TNA and Universal, and they may be forced to leave the impact zone. Basically, there's a pretty good chance Universal will be named as one of liable parties, along with TNA, in the lawsuit. Even though the theme park had little or nothing to do with it, because it took place on their property they'll still shoulder some of the blame.

Okay, even if people want to justify TNA's position here, it is simply impossible not to say that they wouldn't have just been better paying the hospital bills. This could turn into a complete sh*tstorm.

[Mike Wilkins]

Which again, just shows the difference between a premier company like WWE and a second rate company like TNA, and points a glaring finger of truth at them...

First of all, Daffney would have NEVER been asked to take a ridiculous spot like that in WWE and if she did and got hurt, she would have collected a check for the rest of her life because the company wouldn't want to eat a lawsuit because of it.

In addition to that, Daffney would have never been doing a match with Rosie in WWE.  WWE would never let someone that unskilled near a ring.  If they did, that person would just be showing how they could take a few moves and get pinned, the end.

[Black Death]

jack your missing the one part of this story ... she had reservations about doing it .  she did not think it was safe and she told them so... they told her that it was one  a big part of the story ( which was not)  , two that she would be taken care of if she got hurt , she trusting that Terry Taylor her friend ... what your saying is she just went and did it , no that farther from the truth . they convince her,   ensuring that she would be  taken care of if she got hurt and she got hurt ... they than  did not help her . They lied to her face . 


what the fuck is that ...  this could end what being what kills them

[Galaxy]

In a court it isn't as black and white as "She ultimately consented".

If Terry Taylor went on the stand and admitted he and Russo pressured her, like she claims, that would be it for TNA in that case. The judge would award her millions. Because an employer can't do that.

Really, who is a jury going to sympathise with?

A physically broken down young woman, pressured into doing high risk moves and working hurt, and then refused payment for the medical bills resulting in it. And that's not even getting into the fact they STILL hired Rosie after she almost killed her (which makes them look incompetent.)

Or...a billion dollar princess, whose daddy owns an oil company, and ran a business pressuring workers to take risks and who knowingly refused basic medical coverage for her employees and spent her money on a bunch of crap instead?

To a jury of (presumably) working and middle class people TNA and Dixie are going to look very bad indeed. Which is why they will settle with Daffney long before it gets to court.

[Mike Wilkins]

And for this reason, this is why WWE doesn't do stupid things like this... They take care of their injured wrestlers and don't make women take stupid stunts when there is absolutely NO reason to do it.

[Galaxy]

LOL if Daffney, of all people, kills TNA.

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

I still dont like the fact that this conversation between Taylor and her is apparent gospel to a lot of people in this thread because it paints TNA in a bad light, where I cant see any evidence outside a pissed off former TNA worker saying it happened. Secondly, all this talk about the relevance of falling off a ladder in Tesco's I wouldnt expect that to happen in all honesty. Working in the retail trade for a number of years we obviously looked like anyone would do to minimize risks of people hurting themselves on the job, but then I am not asking said shelf stacker to leap off the top of a shelf and elbow drop Mrs. Smith and her trolley...which brings me onto the point of insurance.

A comparison was made by some to stunt men which is where I was going to go next anyway. Thing is a stunt man in many cases is usually an independant person not working for a company so to speak, could we dare say freelance in that respect? Secondly, in most cases they would have their own insurance worked out with an insurance company who would be daft enough to take them on...thats how I see wrestlers falling into this category. What insurance company in their right mind would ensure a wrestling companies employees to wrestle for a living and pay their medical bills...I certainly wouldnt and I wouldnt imagine anyone in this thread with a lick of sense would do the same, so that to me immediately defaults to the responsibility of the individual to make sure they are covered for insurance in the case of injury. If the premium is too high because she cannot afford to do the job...then

a) dont do the job
b) going back to the contract that she signed ask for more money...

I just cannot sit here and feel sorry for a story which seems like a set of Chinese whispers and thats about it. Why if TNA is so wrong does it still have an active roster? Why do wrestlers like ODB and Tara come back to the company as Knockouts if they treat them like utter shit. You can argue there is no smoke without fire, but all this evidence seems based on "mystery employees" saying this and that.  Lets be honest here, if someone came up to me and said:

"Ian, there is a rumour that Jimmy Pisspants is suing your company cause your company you work for is a total bag of shit and allowed him to set himself on fire. Is this true"

Do I say...

"Yes we are effectively going down the pan at said company because we didnt have Pisspants fire insurance...basically we are all fucked my internet dirt sheet reporter..."

Fucking come on fellas, that doesnt make a lick of sense to me at all. I think there probably was some conversation between Taylor and her on the subject, but I dont believe its as black and white as she is making out. I think she is a pissed off employee that signed a contract to get paid fuck all money working for TNA because she was stupid enough to sign a low contract...got hurt...and because she was pissed she didnt get any of the above thought she'd take them to court for it. Is that wrong or right? Not sure...but the one thing that bugs me is that it isn't as black and white as this so called reporter is making out it is it further annoys me that I wouldnt expect any wrestling company in the world to have insurance to cover their performers, specifically the one the size of TNA, only maybe for it's top tier stars who are relevant to the companies money making plans. Daffney was not. You can call it her rights and what not, but at the end of the day, she agreed to go out there and do what she did on an apparent "promise" in the wrestling business admist "apparent" rumours of TNA being a shady company in this regard anyway...come on folks...seriously come on. Either she is dumb fuck stupid...or there is more to this story than we are being told...I'd go with the later.

[Triple B]

Why if TNA is so wrong does it still have an active roster?

Because when you aren't qualified to do anything other than your dream.... wrestle... and the only other place with national American exposure isn't interested in you, you're kind of stuck. 

Also, I would submit that the complaints aren't that they treat EVERYONE poorly, but that they treat women and home grown talent poorly.  They treat the WWE/WCW cast offs much better.  In the article, they point out that they paid for Angle's medical bills, and that they've paid for friends of Jarrett's medical bills as well (Steiner).

Basically... this feeds into my theory that they don't have all this money and are doing as well as you say the are.  They are either unwilling, or unable, to pay for the medical bills of ALL of their talent, fairly.

Say what you will about Vince and WWE being "PG" or "Tyrants" or "Entertainment," but slowing down the pace of the matches, pushing out all of the high risk spots all the time, and helping the talent into rehab and medical treatment programs when needed is the RIGHT thing to do, and regardless of motives, Vince is doing it.

TNA?  They're trying to be "real wrestling."

[! JDM The Professional !]

Because when you aren't qualified to do anything other than your dream.... wrestle... and the only other place with national American exposure isn't interested in you, you're kind of stuck. 

Also, I would submit that the complaints aren't that they treat EVERYONE poorly, but that they treat women and home grown talent poorly.  They treat the WWE/WCW cast offs much better.  In the article, they point out that they paid for Angle's medical bills, and that they've paid for friends of Jarrett's medical bills as well (Steiner).

Basically... this feeds into my theory that they don't have all this money and are doing as well as you say the are.  They are either unwilling, or unable, to pay for the medical bills of ALL of their talent, fairly.

Say what you will about Vince and WWE being "PG" or "Tyrants" or "Entertainment," but slowing down the pace of the matches, pushing out all of the high risk spots all the time, and helping the talent into rehab and medical treatment programs when needed is the RIGHT thing to do, and regardless of motives, Vince is doing it.

TNA?  They're trying to be "real wrestling."

The above bolded comment is absolutely stupid.

If you can't make a living of your dream, then simply don't choose it as your profession. Hell, same goes with anyone that has/had a dream. Get another job and do wrestling part time, don't go bitching about how underpaid you are or your conditions are shit if its your choice to do it in the first place. Daff knew exactly what she was getting into signing with TNA, she agreed to the conditions of the contract and to her wages. If she doesn't like it, she shouldn't have signed.

I don't wanna sound blunt but it's just common sense to me.