The sad story of Shannon "Daffney" Spruill

[! JDM The Professional !]

Gotta agree with JDM, most people don't get the OPPORTUNITY to live their dreams and MOST people work crap jobs. She's lucky to have had the opportunity to do what she wants. There are musicians out there starving and living on their friends couch who would LOVE to get a concussion if it meant they got to play in front of a national audience for a night, let alone as many as Daffney got. There are actors who work nights at crap jobs for DECADES to do what they love with NO recognition.

MOST people work jobs they HATE with the dream of some day having the balls to chase their dreams.

In a lot of ways, Daffney is lucky she got as far as she did. I still stand on the side that she should have had insurance...but if she didn't, as Ian said, she was dumb to not try to get it on her own. I work in an office that doesn't provide medical, but I pay for it the hard way...again...in an OFFICE...you better believe i would have it if my job was getting beat up every night.

I repeat...

should she have had insurance? Yes. Pity Party? No.

Amen to that!!

Real sad that there is no insurance for wrestlers, but as Ian said, it wouldn't work.

[Duckman]

Bollocks.  A huge pile of steaming horse shit.

I work in insurance.  I work with the top insurance companies in the world.  I'm speaking as someone with experience in the insurance sector.  

If you want insurance an insurance company will give it to you.  You just have to pay for it.

They insure all kinds of high risk workers in jobs with a fuck lot more risk than wrestling.

And Panda Energy, who own TNA, should have some kind of insurance or fund in place to support their workers if they are hurt in the course of their employment.  WWE do it and they aren't worth anywhere near what Panda Energy are. 

I just don't understand the main argument in this thread, "if you're a wrestler and you get hurt, it's your own fault."

The lack of respect towards people who put themselves in harms way to entertain you lot is fucking stunning.

Use 'em up and spit 'em out once they're no longer of use eh?  Shocking.

This woman has been injured in the  course of her work and has the right to protection and compensation for those injuries.  No matter if she's a wrestler or anything else.  

Peace

Duckman

[Black Death]

Vibe I am getting is not the Daffney getting hurt , is it that it coming from TNA .  I know it same like there negative upon negative things coming out about TNA every week .  It can get many fans to throw a blind eye to lot of the stuff, that some of it may be false to  cast a bad light on the Company .

but right here I think you are thinking with  your hearts and not with your heads .  now I would be the first to look upon the story and cast some doubt, but if this was the only story ,   you keep hearing story and story of poor treatment of non-main event talent ,  from women and guys  not wanting to go to get check up , because they have to pay for  the bills  , etc etc etc . 

When you start to hear the same things over and over again from different sources about the same thing .  like the old saying goes " where there smoke there fire"  also look at where this is coming from . Have you ever heard a bad thing about Daffeny ,  bad stories about her , attitude problems things like  that ... I never heard of a thing.  I heard nothing but positive things about her

Also she file the suit while she was still working for the company , not after they did not renew her contract

Ian what you just said is that TNA has the right not to cover anyone medical expenses if they get hurt under the company... because it in her contract and JDM and Jack you agree with this.  ( maybe I read it wrong )  Hell I don't know what in there contracts but if that there , sure the hell would not sign with them ever if I was a wrestler.  means i blow out my knee in the ring say after a clothesline or something and they tell me sorry , it in your contract we don't have to cover anything , you have  you pay for it your self , oh can't pay you if your not working good luck.

guys the basic facts of the case is this , she ask do something that she was not sure she need to do . high risk move ( truth was fucking pointless spot ) she express concerns about it to Terry Taylor... TT and VR ( vince Russo)   convince her to do it , expresses  to her that she be taken care of if she get hurt. ( yes I believe that conversation did happen) Trusting that TT word because she believes him to be a friend. (She known him  from WCW when she work there) she does the spot  and get hurt .  now mind you she still with the company and sends them the bill because she got hurt , they give her  the run around and mind you while that happening ,she comes back and get hurt again working  with someone who should not have been in the ring with her.   still there not going to cover the medical expense , she file suit than , they let her go  and your excuse is that she should have known better and not trusted the people that she worked for ... WTF   

so it all her fault , she should have got insurance , not the company that she work for,  she should have walked away when she felt it was unsafe... hey what if she did walk away and they sue for Breach of Contract... you know they would have done that.   so I gather she the asshole for trusting that the people that she works for would help her if she get hurt .   

if the WWE did this I would be on them like white on rice  ... but they don;t because they know it bad for business. TNA does not same to give a fuck.

I am mad , not because it TNA , because it a shitty thing to do , I would be mad if it was any other company.

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

Bollocks.  A huge pile of steaming horse shit.

I work in insurance.  I work with the top insurance companies in the world.  I'm speaking as someone with experience in the insurance sector.  

If you want insurance an insurance company will give it to you.  You just have to pay for it.

They insure all kinds of high risk workers in jobs with a fuck lot more risk than wrestling.

And Panda Energy, who own TNA, should have some kind of insurance or fund in place to support their workers if they are hurt in the course of their employment.  WWE do it and they aren't worth anywhere near what Panda Energy are. 

I just don't understand the main argument in this thread, "if you're a wrestler and you get hurt, it's your own fault."

The lack of respect towards people who put themselves in harms way to entertain you lot is fucking stunning.

Use 'em up and spit 'em out once they're no longer of use eh?  Shocking.

This woman has been injured in the  course of her work and has the right to protection and compensation for those injuries.  No matter if she's a wrestler or anything else.  

Peace

Duckman

Certainly not a lack of respect at all. The point of this argument is that if your company didnt have insurance then you should be seeking insurance on a private basis which is how in a lot of cases the United States works. It is irrelevant whether you work for one of the biggest insurance companies in the world mate, the United States and the companies that work within it operate very differently than over here, specifically ones that have a high risk attached to what they do. She would have signed an agreement with TNA that was an understanding they wouldnt pay for her medical bills if there was a problem, therefore if she felt at risk she should have gotten private medical insurance. If she couldnt afford it then she should have asked for more money or not be wrestling.

[! JDM The Professional !]

Vibe I am getting is not the Daffney getting hurt , is it that it coming from TNA .  I know it same like there negative upon negative things coming out about TNA every week .  It can get many fans to throw a blind eye to lot of the stuff, that some of it may be false to  cast a bad light on the Company .

but right here I think you are thinking with  your hearts and not with your heads .  now I would be the first to look upon the story and cast some doubt, but if this was the only story ,   you keep hearing story and story of poor treatment of non-main event talent ,  from women and guys  not wanting to go to get check up , because they have to pay for  the bills  , etc etc etc . 

When you start to hear the same things over and over again from different sources about the same thing .  like the old saying goes " where there smoke there fire"  also look at where this is coming from . Have you ever heard a bad thing about Daffeny ,  bad stories about her , attitude problems things like  that ... I never heard of a thing.  I heard nothing but positive things about her

Also she file the suit while she was still working for the company , not after they did not renew her contract

Ian what you just said is that TNA has the right not to cover anyone medical expenses if they get hurt under the company... because it in her contract and JDM and Jack you agree with this.  ( maybe I read it wrong )  Hell I don't know what in there contracts but if that there , sure the hell would not sign with them ever if I was a wrestler.  means i blow out my knee in the ring say after a clothesline or something and they tell me sorry , it in your contract we don't have to cover anything , you have  you pay for it your self , oh can't pay you if your not working good luck.

guys the basic facts of the case is this , she ask do something that she was not sure she need to do . high risk move ( truth was fucking pointless spot ) she express concerns about it to Terry Taylor... TT and VR ( vince Russo)   convince her to do it , expresses  to her that she be taken care of if she get hurt. ( yes I believe that conversation did happen) Trusting that TT word because she believes him to be a friend. (She known him  from WCW when she work there) she does the spot  and get hurt .  now mind you she still with the company and sends them the bill because she got hurt , they give her  the run around and mind you while that happening ,she comes back and get hurt again working  with someone who should not have been in the ring with her.   still there not going to cover the medical expense , she file suit than , they let her go  and your excuse is that she should have known better and not trusted the people that she worked for ... WTF   

so it all her fault , she should have got insurance , not the company that she work for,  she should have walked away when she felt it was unsafe... hey what if she did walk away and they sue for Breach of Contract... you know they would have done that.   so I gather she the asshole for trusting that the people that she works for would help her if she get hurt .   

if the WWE did this I would be on them like white on rice  ... but they don;t because they know it bad for business. TNA does not same to give a fuck.

I am mad , not because it TNA , because it a shitty thing to do , I would be mad if it was any other company.

See, the above bolded is just utter falseness. What happened in plain black and white was a worker getting hurt on the job, then seeks the company to pay for the medical expenses when it was NEVER stated on her contract that they'd do so. (read the terms and conditions daffney!) She then sues because of them refusing to pay her medical bills because they weren't obligated via contract to do so.

Also, I'd like to reiterate on what someone said regarding JJ and Steiner having the bills paid for them. Ever thought it was part of their contracts?? I guarantee there are some wrestlers who have it included, and some who don't.

I feel bad for any wrestler who gets injured doing what they love and we love watching, and they ALL deserve insurance, but in no way is it fair to sue your employer if it wasn't part of your contract in the first place.

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

Ian what you just said is that TNA has the right not to cover anyone medical expenses if they get hurt under the company... because it in her contract and JDM and Jack you agree with this.  ( maybe I read it wrong )  Hell I don't know what in there contracts but if that there , sure the hell would not sign with them ever if I was a wrestler.  means i blow out my knee in the ring say after a clothesline or something and they tell me sorry , it in your contract we don't have to cover anything , you have  you pay for it your self , oh can't pay you if your not working good luck.

I'll address this seeing as the rest of your argument is a story about some conversation she had with Taylor and Russo...you dont know happened, but play it off as happening...

If she signed a contract which negated TNA from paying her medical expenses then they dont owe her anything. If she signed a contract which said they would pay for medical expenses sustained at the hands of any wrestling injury then she will win her case and it's a done deal. I cannot understand why people can be arguing against this at all. It is not uncommon practice in the United States for companies to not cover people medically and it being part of a payment package that people pay into. All of you who are American should know that...if you don't then find out about it. That is why I have no sympathy for her case. If she couldn't afford a plan with TNA then she could have got private medical insurance elsewhere. If she still couldn't then go find another fricking job or go work for a wrestling company that offers what you want.

[Triple B]

Since I was told I was fucking stupid by JDM, I hereby pull off the gloves, and call the vast majority of you fucking stupid.

Your small, peon brains don't seem to be able to comprehend something here...

This isn't a question of "Did she get hit by a car and not have insurance?" or "Did she get the sniffles and not have insurance?"

This is a FUCKING WORKER'S COMP issue, you idiots.

If you fall off a ladder at Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart pays your fucking bills.  Simple as that.  And, depending on the level of negligence by the people in charge, they may pay lost wages or other punitive damages as well.  She went out and wrestled for TNA, said she wasn't cool with what was happening, was talked INTO it, and got hurt.  And you mean to tell me that you guys are THAT blind of TNA marks that you don't see this as an issue?

And I stand by my statement that people will stay there and take it from TNA, or WWE, or ANY job, if they NEED the job or WANT the job that bad.  Why else do people put up with sexual harrasment at work for YEARS?  Why else do people put up with worker's rights violations, or any other issue you can think of at OTHER jobs? 

You REALLY think it's ok for them to have people ON THE CURRENT ROSTER who have to resort to taking second jobs to make money?  You REALLY think it's good for people who are CHAMPIONS to not be able to AFFORD the fucking PLANE TICKET to get to a house show?

I completely understand that TNA is not WWE, and doesn't have the $$$ that they have.  But you know what you do then?  You don't pay out the fucking nose for D-List celebrities like J-Woww and Johnny Fairplay (who got $300,000 for 40 total min of work, btw), you don't pay out hte fucking nose for broken down, part time veterans who don't do dick for your ratings or buyrates, and you don't run with a bloated roster.  AND, you let your roster go handle their own fucking bookings so they can make some money while you have them sit at home staring at the wall.  TNA's ratings are steadily dropping each week... again.  They will never, in their current state, be any more than a glorified indy fed that just happens to have scored a good place to tape.  That's all.

I don't want to sound blunt, JDM, but maybe you should stick to subjects you have some knowledge about.

Not an insurance issue.  It's Worker's Comp.  You can have the best fucking insurance on the planet, but if you get hurt at work, THEY pay for it.  End of story.  They're trying the same BS that Vince pulled years ago with the "Independant Contractors" line.  It didn't work for Vince, and I'm floored that people who would call out Vince on the SPOT about saying that now, are trying to make excuses for TNA now.

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

Firstly I hope that comment about being a fucking stupid wasn't directed at me because I know exactly why she has filed a worker's comp issue with TNA because if she had insurance or they insured her...she wouldn't have to pay for it which is the point? Correct? Thanks very much...further to which I thought it was glaring obvious that part of her argument would be a loss of earnings argument as well as a result of an injury. Surely I didn't have to explain I thought that was a load of BS like I have her seeking on medical compensation from a company when she has made an agreement to work for them without insurance as far as I can work out.

And she was talked into it...which is her word vs. TNA's. I don't see that as an issue cause like BD and about everyone else in this argument who has said this you are assuming that her word is gospel. I don’t know what happened there and you don’t. What I do know is that she wouldn't have been filing this against TNA if there were insurances put into place either through her company or privately  cover her medically/loss of earnings as a result of a scenario of injury developing at work. That is my issue with this that she is either too fucking stupid to have thought about this in the first place or is doing what a lot of people do which is just sign on up for something without reading even the most basic of things. When I signed my contract for work...I read what I was entitled to and what I could and could not do. You are an intelligent man B, I'd imagine you'd do the same and if you got caught out on something...well then there is only you to blame.

I am not arguing and I resent the fact anyone implying otherwise that I am completely heartless about her situation it sucks badly for her she got hurt, I am a wrestling fan and don’t like to see anyone get hurt and it’s pissed me off that aspect of what I am saying is being questioned. What I am saying is I can’t sit here and feel all sorry for her plight when anyone with any common sense would surely read what they are entitled to, specifically when the entire industry of wrestling is fucking shady as hell and we all know that.
As for your argument about plane tickets and second jobs that is one of the most ridiculous statements you have made in our back and forth over the years about this mate. So does that mean...that the guy who runs the shitty Wall-Mart down the road from you is entitled to the same pay scale as you even though you do a better job? Or better yet...in terms of professional athletes that a guy who plays for a low league soccer team is entitled to the same benefits as a Premiership footballer. Some people have to have a second job...again if it’s a big deal for them...fuck off and get one job doing something else. It’s time and time again I see these arguments for people like Christopher Daniels treatment or ODB’s treatment or Tara’s treatment and all these people keep on coming back to TNA Wrestling. If it is so horrendous and horrible and all that, then go and do something else. Why haven’t the talents like Joe, Styles etc. gone off to work in Japan or knowing full well WWE would have some use for them gone and worked on getting in there.

Apparently the argument here is I should feel sorry for Daffney because she is a dumbass. I feel sorry for her because she got hurt like anyone would do, but I don’t feel sorry for what has come out the back of it if she is too stupid to have put the proper motions into place to make sure she was taken care of in the event she did become hurt which again is the internet saying Russo said do this...or Taylor said do that...which is easy to do because everyone in TNA Management is apparently a complete cunt...because you don’t like the way it’s booked or the stories they do or the fact they use wrestlers you don’t care about anymore and before you say I am turning this into “that type of argument” I damn well am because NONE of you have any evidence this conversation took place, but at least TWO of you are writing responses that I can see in front of me (not scrolling back through everyone elses) that imply she was 100 percent forced into doing it. Why could she equally not be a person who knew their contract was coming to an end, knew they would be released, got hurt and then put this into motion? Hell we have all heard of folks trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the folks they work for before. Why is Daffney a saint? It’s because you guys don’t like the TNA product , Jag said it about three posts in...

Stepping back and playing devils advocate.

Just because somebody suing a company says "Hey look, this story is legit" does not in fact make it so.

Seriously...you talk about the TNA marks/smarks needing some perspective, I think guys on the other side of the fence need some badly as well. Not one credible source has come out against TNA in any of these articles, but you treat it as gospel.

[Triple B]

I know exactly why she has filed a worker's comp issue with TNA because if she had insurance or they insured her...she wouldn't have to pay for it which is the point? Correct?

No.  Incorrect.

Doesn't matter if she has or had insurance.  If she's hurt on the job, work pays for it.  Either they pay for it out of pocket, or they pay for it via their own Worker's Comp Insurance.  Either way, her own personal insurance is not obligated to pay for it. 

[Duckman]

Or Employer's Liability insurance as it's known over here.  Which is EXACTLY what I've been saying from post one.

Peace

Duckman

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

No.  Incorrect.

Doesn't matter if she has or had insurance.  If she's hurt on the job, work pays for it.  Either they pay for it out of pocket, or they pay for it via their own Worker's Comp Insurance.  Either way, her own personal insurance is not obligated to pay for it. 

Jesus! I understand that mate!

But there are insurances on a personal insurance level which does mean they will pay for your medical bills and loss of earnings, my point being if TNA did not offer this as part of her contract...she could have sort a private coverage that could of if she was concerned about it.

[Duckman]

Also Ian, I love how we're in the wrong for taking what this report says as true.  Yet neither you or anyone has seen this so called 'contract' that Daffney has signed that absolves TNA from all their legal obligations - which even if she had signed would be thrown out under the Unfair Contract Terms law that I'm sure they have in the US.  

From all reports the people are her level are on 'pay as you play' deal and therefore the company has even more of an obligation to protect her if she's hurt.

This has fuck all to do with TNA being a shit wrestling product and all to do with workers rights and the laws in place to protect them.

Peace

Duckman

[Ian "Wolfie" Trumps]

Also Ian, I love how we're in the wrong for taking what this report says as true.  Yet neither you or anyone has seen this so called 'contract' that Daffney has signed that absolves TNA from all their legal obligations - which even if she had signed would be thrown out under the Unfair Contract Terms law that I'm sure they have in the US.  

From all reports the people are her level are on 'pay as you play' deal and therefore the company has even more of an obligation to protect her if she's hurt.

This has fuck all to do with TNA being a shit wrestling product and all to do with workers rights and the laws in place to protect them.

Peace

Duckman

If there was no debate about what was in her contract they she wouldn't be putting a case together Sam thats my point. So while you guys can sit here and debate the means of what Vince Russo and Terry Taylor said or didnt say which is all matter of fact, I'd be inclined to agree if she had something in writing saying they'd cover her medically and with pay as a result of an injury then she'd shove it in their faces...hence this wouldn't even remotely be an issue. So yeah as oppossed to buying into some secret source, I think the fact she is making a case for it means that something in her contract isn't 100% clear or completely missing. I don't have to have specualtion there...as I said there wouldn't be an argument.

[Duckman]

I think it'll be interesting to see if TNA settle out of court.  They do and we all know they're liable and in the wrong on this one.

Peace

Duckman

[Duckman]

From personal experience we've got tons of Court actions in against us for claims relating to cover employees do have.  Employers won't usually pay out on anything that might have a 'grey' area unless they're advised to by their solicitors.

Once this gets to Court or even gets that far, then the true nature of who did what and what claims she can make against Panda Energy will be seen.

At the moment everyone is just giving their opinion on something they know half the facts on. 

I still stand by the fact that legally Panda Energy have a responsibility towards their employees if they're injured in the course of their employment.  Any contract which tries to refute that wouldn't get through Court and in the old cliche, wouldn't be worth the paper it's printed on.

Peace

Duckman