Abortion doctor murdered in Wichita in CHURCH

[Excaligore]

Kind of weird when you think about it. This guy will never be labeled a terrorist. We'll never stereotype Christians are terrorists because this man proves that some are. Yet, we'll stereotype Muslims completely as terrorists for isolated incidents. Ironic how prejudice phrases can be...

As for whether he deserved it or not. I've seen a lot of piece of shit kids out there. I've seen a lot of piece of shit adults out there who come from piece of shit kids. I know they come from somewhere. Most women get abortions because they believe at the stage they are incapable of raising such a child. If a woman doesn't have confidence in raising her child will she be there throughout his stages of development or will he become a delinquent? Will they be the assholes who throw beer cans in your driveways?

Besides, This man isn't fucking Josef Smeagle. It isn't as if he's killing kids against anybody's will. Sure, Late term abortions are immoral BUT his crime isn't being sadistic. It's simply greed. He isn't a baby killer he's just a greedy greedy doctor. Furthermore, on an unrelated note, If religious folk are really so distraught about what he does then why exactly did they even invent 'Hell'. The point of Hell is to be a place where people who get away with things go so you can live with people getting away with things. You know tell yourself "Aw, well, we'll be laughing at him when he's in Hell!"

OK, you make good points Cliff, as usual but one thing I'd like to point out. I have not read about religious reasons being cited in this crime. It is possible to recognize the rights of the unborn without actually being religious. I feel this point is often completely overlooked.

True. Yet, I feel, the choice to do so in a church was symbolic. I mean, why not do it in the parking lot outside his work, or in his home, or at the grocery? Reading further it seems like the man was fueled largely by a radical biblical neocult type thing. Albeit, at this point, it's largely speculation.

As for your point, No, it's not an entirely religious issue. Abortion is a really interesting issue because pretty much all sides have a point. To be honest, I am kind of mortified at the concept that abortion is related to "Women's choices", and are referred to as simple amputations. I think pushing it as a women's rights front is extremely disgusting as a lot of tactics pro choice people push forward.

Yet, I am compelled not to be anti-abortion from seeing first hand a lot of the effects of improper childhood. There are a lot of people out there lost and incapable of coping with regular societal standards, and such because they were brought up with the wrong childhood, no childhood at all, or raised in government run/religious institutions which can't really simulate true parenthood. I mean, after all, you can gauge almost all serial killers and violent criminals to some sort of childhood trauma. Parenthood is a pretty heavy thing, and I think it's damaging to anybody, if 100% can't be spent into it.

In the end, Abortion should be treated like Execution. Albeit, by nature, drastically different things. Should both be considered last resort, and should be carried as heavy issues as they are. I mean, as for fetal rights. Fuck if you even have rights as an adult. I don't really like the phrase. I think it's just as much a sensationalist phrase like "it's only part of a woman's body" except on the opposite end of the spectrum. Sort of smears the point.

[Drama Queen]

Very fair and balanced view on a topic which unfortunately has no real "compromise".

I agree sensationalism runs rampant on both sides, and I displayed it (though I contest "mildly"...lol) in my last post and I claim to be very moderate on the issue myself.

I once seen a bumper sticker with the slogan "Against Abortion? Then Don't Have One" which completely disgusted me as it completely disregards the opposing views entire point. It really irks me how some people are so damn blasse about the whole thing.

It also irks me that the Catholic church will excommunicate someone over having the procedure, but then again the Catholic church pretty much irk me all of the time anyway.


For the record, morally I am pro-life, politically I am pro-choice for the first trimester

[Level-One]

The best term I can put this situation into--is like someone who comes into your store; with a gun ready to rob and or kill you. You shoot him in the face, and he dies.

You didn't want to kill him, it sucks that it happen--but the man was there to rob you.

Meh.

I think it's more along the lines of.

Someone is using a gun to rob and kill a neighboring store, whose owner you don't know. You pull out a gun and shoot him, he dies.

As far as I'm concerned an eye for an eye is a wank arguement. Murder is wrong. Just reminding you. Also I'm amazed the number of people who said "he deserved it"...

Motherfucker shouldn't have been stealing, Period. It comes with the risk, right? Besides, I admit--this was a poor anology, especially as abortion is not illegal.

Basically, what I meant to say, with-out sugar coating it--is that I don't really feel any sympathy for the guy. Should he have been killed? No, of course not--it's not up to anyone to choose on weather or not someone should live or die (hehe, abortion?) but do I feel horribly bad for the guy, given for what he did for a career? No.

Maybe that makes me a bad person, I don't know.

As for it being the ''women's'' choice, I'm split. I think it should be done in rare circumstances; where the mother life is in danger, and or incases of rape. Not because some chick  got knocked up and fears responsibility. This behavior has become socially acceptable, and it's quite pathetic. While I can see where cliff is coming from; I do think it's too broad of a statement.

Not every kid with ''bad parents'' turns out to be bad themselves. In fact, I'm willing to bet that one of those ''beer cans'' thrown in those driveways? Was also thrown from a child whom was brought up well, in an average to above average enviornment. Not to mention; there's also foster care options, and or using proper judgement when it comes to having sex--before any of it all happens.

What about the women who have more than one abortion? Still excersing their womenly rights, or are they using their bodies as death machines?

It's murder, in my eyes. It's socially acceptable because they made it legal. That's all. Why is it that a women can kill her child while it's in her stomach, but can't when it's out and visible to their eyes--even under these same circumstances of being unsure if they can take care the infant or not? Is it because you don't see them as human or something?

Just a question for those who are ''pro-choice'' or whatever. And I appreciate if I'm not classified as a religious person; I don't follow religion, it's the biggest tool for brain-washing that exists since the begining of time.

[chunkylover]

There have been 8 abortions in my school year, so out of the 270 kids 8 have aborted. 2 miscarried and 1 has a happy and healthy baby and barely any education.
The girls who had abortions continued their education and will do well.
One of the miscarrying girls tried to kill herself, the miscarrage making her depressed. The other one is struggling to get her education.

Thats a little off topic, but to the point.

Abortion didn't become so accepted because we felt like it. It was because times are changing.
Personally, I think that a child cannot be properly raised by an unloving mother, I wouldn't have kids as I have no paternal instinct whatsoever and cannot stand children. So I use contraception, but if it failed, and my partner did not want kids and circumstances prevented her from aborting in the first trimester... Fuck it, I'd probably let her have a late abortion.

As with most things I'm a child myself, I don't know what you know. But I do know you have to see an argument from two sides. He was more a tool for murder than a murderer. If a mother can kill her child its her decision, whether she uses a doctor or just does it her own way, which I assume involves a sharp object and internal bleeding... which sounds a fuckload worse than a late abortion.

[Level-One]

As with most things I'm a child myself, I don't know what you know. But I do know you have to see an argument from two sides. He was more a tool for murder than a murderer. If a mother can kill her child its her decision, whether she uses a doctor or just does it her own way, which I assume involves a sharp object and internal bleeding... which sounds a fuckload worse than a late abortion.

I recomend you read up on the process. You won't be saying the same thing.

[Big Gay Honker]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31086037/?GT1=43001

What the shit is this, Judgmental asshole break the law to strike down your immoral enemy week?

[Excaligore]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31086037/?GT1=43001

What the shit is this, Judgmental asshole break the law to strike down your immoral enemy week?

Ok, now that's just stupid. I know in America we for some reason think sex is more dangerous than violence, but burning a tit bar(Or rather, tit coffee shop? Weird.) is fucking Al Queda levels of extreme.

[Stevie Swing]

That is the oddest business model I've ever seen.

[Zombie Gunn]

Eugh, I was about to say something but nevermind.  Think I'll just go have a soda instead.

[Tim-Æ]

What pisses me off is that Tiller dies, but Fred Phelps is still alive. That man spreads more hate than anyone else in the United States but no one can touch him.

[Excaligore]

What pisses me off is that Tiller dies, but Fred Phelps is still alive. That man spreads more hate than anyone else in the United States but no one can touch him.

Well, they say assassins like going after popular figures. I think, that they want the feeling they're taking something away from the world.

[Judge]

Topless Coffee Shop?

Damn that's dangerous.

[Big Gay Honker]

Just never ask for milk in your coffee there...

[Draeden]

Just never ask for milk in your coffee there...

One squirt or two?

[Jon Tees]

There have been alot of negative things said about men forcing women to get abortions etc. However, sometimes its the opposite, the man may actually want the child but the woman doesn’t therefore the woman gets an abortion and the man has no say in the matter in a so called “man’s world.”