I was watching baseball after the PPV and the announcers said Osama was killed. So I switched to the news and am watching NBC. Supposedly he was killed by U.S. forces by his mansion. I'm kinda in disbelief at the moment. Thought I'd spread the news and see what the reaction is globally as this is my main outlet to speak to those across the world rather than just in Ohio.
America! Fuck yeah!
- from New Zealand
Bin Laden heard Cena won again and was like "fuck it".
So what can we expect from Raw tomorrow night in regards to this. I will be very surprised if they don't give it a mention or spot.
R.I.P. Jesse Gunn :(
Alright, Bin Laden is now officially dead which is great news. Donald Trump however is still demanding to see the death certificate.
Great timing. ::) Congratulations on your re-election, Obama! A LONG FORM birth certificate (that everyone said didn't exist) and now a death certificate all in one week, not too shabby.
Now that he's ''dead'' can we end the wars now?
Prediction: The media begins to hype the ''next'' terror attack now that he's dead. They'll need a new bogeyman, soon.
Sorry to rain on the little parade...
(http://i.imgur.com/KDssc.jpg)
I was surpised that he is still alive... it's good closure though... and yes possibly very convenient to politicians... overall though my feelings are good... which is not actually good for a Christian... but you know, we're all humans and have our emotions.
Quote from: Mike Storm on May 02, 2011, 01:32:12 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/KDssc.jpg)
that win right there
well Obama now has a good hold card ... " well you had bush for 8 years ... could not get him . It took me less than 4 years . who you want running your country "
lol, so he's been buried already?
You see here's me thinking he's already been dead. I know, I know. Crazy thought.
They say he got a nice sea burial, they tossed that fool over board the first chance they got, then prob fired a few dozen bullets to make sure there aim was still spot on.
In other news...Sir Ian Trumps is the NEW TERRORIST!!!! With his army of downies!
How can the dude have a mansion in Pakistan or where ever it is, yet it still takes America a decade to find him...
Quote from: Rob on May 02, 2011, 07:36:08 AM
How can the dude have a mansion in Pakistan or where ever it is, yet it still takes America a decade to find him...
They will never find my mansion....
ON MOUNT DOOM!!!! MUHAHAHAHA!
Quote from: Bill-E Mitchell on May 02, 2011, 06:52:45 AM
In other news...Sir Ian Trumps is the NEW TERRORIST!!!! With his army of downies!
They'll all get sea burials too, yay!
To be honest, yeah it's a morale boost that they killed Bin Laden, but what difference is it really going to make? He's the figurehead of Al Quaeda but if you think 10 years after 9/11 he's the only one running stuff and planning stuff you're an idiot. I'm also kinda on the side of the conspiracy fence that says that he's been dead for a while and Obama just waits for the right moment to announce it. I could be wrong, but I just find it quite a happy coincidence that just when he needs some good news coming his way, ta-da, we killed that bearded dude! Wait, what, prove it? Oh, no, sorry we decided although we've been hunting the guy for 10 years and he's been behind the murders of thousands of innocent people, we weren't gonna take pictures, or get DNA reports, or anything like that, we just buried him nicely. It's what he would have wanted.
The weird thing is I haven’t heard anything about Bin Laden for years in terms of the news and had started to forget about him. The news that he was actually still alive and they were still after him and now he’s dead came as a real shock as I sort of assumed that they had given up. The timing seems a bit impeccable but I guess better late than never and now all of those families have closure.
Killing Bin Laden will do as much for stopping terrorism as killing the Colonel will stop KFC making chicken.
The dude is a logo, a figure head and while I suppose it's fitting revenge/closure (although I still don't believe killing someone for killing someone else solves anything) for the people who believed what he stood for, this is just another reason to hate the West and American in particular.
I'd hang fire on the reports about him being buried at sea too. That's not been confirmed by anyone yet.
The big question should be, how the fuck did he live in a military style compound in Pakistan, less than a mile from their version of Fort Hood for so long? Obviously the Pakistan government aren't quite the allies that the West thought.
Score 1 for the PR machine for the US but this isn't 'the end' of the 'war' by any means.
As the BBC Middle East correspondant said today:
But the root causes of radical Islam - the range of issues that enabled al-Qaeda to recruit disaffected young Muslims to its cause - remain, for the most part, unaddressed. The death of Bin Laden will strike at the morale of the global jihad, but is unlikely to end it.
Peace
Duckman
I agree with Duckman.
This is nothing more than a big morale booster, but it is really too late. Osama bin Laden was just a leader who had charisma and would get in front of the camera and/or tape recorder and spew bullshit.
He was nothing but a figurehead, and his death will probably actually cause him to become a martyr and do a better job of uniting the terrorist cells than he ever could.
If we got in and killed him like less than a year after 9/11, then it would have been a MASSIVE victory. Instead, we have arrived a little too late to the party much like how long it took us to do something about Saddam Hussein.
Either way, it's a nice moment for America. We need some good news every now and again.
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH.
Personally this is a joyous day for Americans. That bullet to the Dome was long overdue. While we didn't take out the heart out of Al Qaeda, we've been taking the brains out over the years. 9/11 had suicide bombers that for the most part got the job done not because they had natural ability for it, but because they had much better training. Now all they manage to do is light their junk on fire. We're taking their morale along with the people that are experts in what they plan.
I personally doubt we have that much to worry about over here. Now in the middle east I do think attacks will increase on our troops, but over here I don't think so. So long as European countries like Amsterdam don't royally screw up allowing no fly list individuals to fly to America anyway. Not that there already isn't a few here already but chances are our FBI know who the majority of them are anyway. Now we just need the Lockerbie bomber dead today for an excellent week.
Hopefully someone will pick up somewhat on my tongue in cheek posts about me being the next super terrorist because that is all he has been for sometime is the poster boy for a movement and quite frankly this buried at sea bollocks...pardon the pun is a bit fishy.
There is one thing I agree with Sam in particular though. Dude went from hiding in caves throughout the desert to hiding in a suburb. There is no way Pakistan did not know about where he was. And quite frankly it should speak volumes that America chose not to have them in on the operation. Hopefully something comes of all of this. I am also hoping that taking out the more of the famous bad guys will take out some of the hate from people who hate muslims for no real reason.
It may not be "Mission Accomplished" but it's a nice little win, long overdue.
Since when are they burying the body? We have the body in custody and are doing DNA tests to confirm and shit. You have to be one hell of an asshole to think that this is a conspiracy-PR stunt.
Lets face it, no matter when it happened someone is gonna try to spin it to fit their wild conspiracy theories. Had it happened back in 2001 it would have been "all apart of the plot." If it happened in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2155 it would have been "all apart of the plot". So really fuck off for anyone who thinks the "timing" of this equals "conspiracy". It's a shame that there are people resort to that line of thinking so quickly. Personally I think it's an insult to the armed forces touring in Iraq and an insult to those who died on 9/11.
Quote from: Big Gay Honker on May 02, 2011, 10:50:15 AM
I am also hoping that taking out the more of the famous bad guys will take out some of the hate from people who hate muslims for no real reason.
Agreed
We have a strong Muslim population in the UK in relation to our size as a nation and its pretty obvious a lot of people form opinions on all Muslims because of Muslim terrorists in general.
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on May 02, 2011, 10:53:18 AM
You have to be one hell of an asshole to think that this is a conspiracy-PR stunt.
Lets face it, no matter when it happened someone is gonna try to spin it to fit their wild conspiracy theories. Had it happened back in 2001 it would have been "all apart of the plot." If it happened in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2012, 2155 it would have been "all apart of the plot". So really fuck off for anyone who thinks the "timing" of this equals "conspiracy". It's a shame that there are people resort to that line of thinking so quickly. Personally I think it's an insult to the armed forces touring in Iraq and an insult to those who died on 9/11.
Then call me an asshole. You have to be pretty naive to think everyone is looking out for your best interests T-Bone.
Quote from: Bill-E Mitchell on May 02, 2011, 10:55:30 AM
Agreed
We have a strong Muslim population in the UK in relation to our size as a nation and its pretty obvious a lot of people form opinions on all Muslims because of Muslim terrorists in general.
Indeed. To me if you're going to hate all muslims because of a small sect of assholes, then you might as well blame every Catholic in the world when a priest butt fucks an alter boy. Or blame every black guy when a while guys is shot by one. Or every white guy for the KKK burning crosses in people yards. In the end they're all people like you and me.
Amsterdam's not a country by the way :)
And T-Bone it's been confirmed the body's already been buried... genius. Guess that makes me an asshole! Oops.
It's not a doorknob either.
Haters gonna hate
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on May 02, 2011, 11:20:04 AM
Haters gonna hate
We are discussing Bin Laden's shooting not 2Pacs!
Quote from: Bill-E Mitchell on May 02, 2011, 11:23:24 AM
We are discussing Bin Laden's shooting not 2Pacs!
2-Pac is alive on a remote island with the other famous celebs who faked their deaths like Elvis and Jackson
I might be able to go along with the "this is odd timing" arguement about Bin Laden being killed, if it was near anything that could help Obama.
If this was this time NEXT year, or nearer an election, I'd be a little bit more on board. This just seems like Obama crossing another thing off of the list Bush SHOULD have crossed off. We had Bin Laden once before in Afghanistan. We dropped the ball. This time, we were decisive, and took him out ourselves. The amount of detail of how this went down already released tells me it isn't a hoax. We got him, and he deserved it.
I understand burying him at sea, because they didn't want to incite Muslims that they were parading around his body and being disrespectful. We weren't killing a Muslim Terrorist. We were killing a Terrorist who happened to be Muslim, and tried to pervert Muslim beliefs to justify the fact he was evil. Dumping the body at sea also takes care of us having to hand his body over to his family or others, making it look like he's a fallen soldier. He's not. He's a fucktard who got his ass eaten by Shamu.
^Nailed it.
Quote from: Triple B on May 02, 2011, 12:40:12 PM
I might be able to go along with the "this is odd timing" arguement about Bin Laden being killed, if it was near anything that could help Obama.
If this was this time NEXT year, or nearer an election, I'd be a little bit more on board. This just seems like Obama crossing another thing off of the list Bush SHOULD have crossed off. We had Bin Laden once before in Afghanistan. We dropped the ball. This time, we were decisive, and took him out ourselves. The amount of detail of how this went down already released tells me it isn't a hoax. We got him, and he deserved it.
I understand burying him at sea, because they didn't want to incite Muslims that they were parading around his body and being disrespectful. We weren't killing a Muslim Terrorist. We were killing a Terrorist who happened to be Muslim, and tried to pervert Muslim beliefs to justify the fact he was evil. Dumping the body at sea also takes care of us having to hand his body over to his family or others, making it look like he's a fallen soldier. He's not. He's a fucktard who got his ass eaten by Shamu.
The only Muslims they would be inciting are the ones that supported his cause anyway...who ironically I think will be equally as pissed off he is dead. I dont think its a direct relation to anything to do with Obama actually...I just think it seems shady all around.
They didn't want his grave to become a shrine and also had to keep to the Muslim traditions that a body is buried within 12 hours of death...if they did in fact bury him at sea.
For what it's worth BBC are reporting the DNA tests have been done and are conclusive.
Peace
Duckman
Quote from: Duckman on May 02, 2011, 01:35:28 PM
They didn't want his grave to become a shrine and also had to keep to the Muslim traditions that a body is buried within 12 hours of death...if they did in fact bury him at sea.
For what it's worth BBC are reporting the DNA tests have been done and are conclusive.
Peace
Duckman
Wait. Isn't it Muslim traditions that they're buried on land... not in the sea? At the same time, they kept the Muslim tradition of burying him within 12 hours of death? Why one and not the other? Preferably, the latter which may end up explaining away the evidence all together.
Quote from: Duckman on May 02, 2011, 01:35:28 PM
They didn't want his grave to become a shrine
At least that's what they're saying.
Peace
Duckman
Quote from: Duckman on May 02, 2011, 01:35:28 PM
They didn't want his grave to become a shrine and also had to keep to the Muslim traditions that a body is buried within 12 hours of death...if they did in fact bury him at sea.
For what it's worth BBC are reporting the DNA tests have been done and are conclusive.
Peace
Duckman
Yeah I also read the Muslim tradition bit which I didnt know actually, but regardless of which I still felt and feel that giving him the Pirates of the Carribeen extras ending...was a bit fishy.
They offered his body to his native Saudi Arabia and they did not want him buried in their country, that's what I heard.
Regardless of whether or not that is true, they did absolutely the right thing in my opinion. His tomb would become a shrine and should there be somewhere for people to embark on a pilgrimage to, it would create the possibility of a whole range of nastiness. His grave would have to have 24 hour security, spending yet more money and putting yet more lives at risk and frankly he was not worth it.
When you commit atrocities on his scale, your religion etc does not matter a stuff in my eyes. A monster can be a monster regardless of their faith and deserve to be treated as nothing more than that.
Good riddance to him. Let's hope we can ride out any potential revenge attacks and that reports detailing a lack of support for his replacement are true. This is a great morale boost for the troops regardless of the intricacies of the story and hopefully it's a beginning of the end of Al-Qaeda.
There will always be reasons to be pessimistic but this is undoubtedly an important day in the war on terror.
Quote from: Duckman on May 02, 2011, 01:49:34 PM
At least that's what they're saying.
Peace
Duckman
Yeah, I hear you duckman. What I'm saying is, this entire being sensitive to the Muslim religion is a bunch of bullshit. We can't give him a ground burial but we'll be sure to follow that up by burying him well within 12 hours in the name of the religion, lol. If people aren't going to be outraged by the first, the second is a mere formality.
A few questions I personally have at this point, that I'll be looking for myself, regardless.
Why was Usama killed instead of captured? Were they in immediate danger? Was he an immediate threat? He would have been 100% more useful alive then dead. This will probably fall under ''top secret'' and we'll never know as suspicion grows...
What is this facial recognition technology they're talking about in which it's been reported these use to identify him? How did that process work? Wouldn't you have to already been put in some sorta of database for that
And in regards to B's post; I don't see how the timing isn't suspicious. Why did Obama choose to release his birth certificate this week? It's clear they were using it for a political play as they could have released it two years ago when asked. There's obviously a reason why they released that now just before his run and not during the 2012 campaign, I'm sure. Maybe it being obvious as fuck is one of them.
Well keep in mind he's known about Bin Laden's location since August. So he could pick and choose anytime he wanted to take him out. I'm still waiting on news where Trump is demanding a death certificate. Long version.
I love that they're burying him at sea though. That's one more dickslap on him after shooting him in the face. By now he's fish poo. I'm just amazed that Hamas has the balls to condemn us. If it wasn't for our leaders, Israel would have ended them by now.
People have said they elected to kill him because he knew too much about too many high ranking officials in world governments and their involvements in underhanded and suspicious activities. He was silenced (by being killed) out of a fear that if captured he’d sing like a bird and bring alot of other people down with him. We’ll never know for sure but now that he’s dead the world is a much safer place at least for now.
So many opinions both realistic and jokingly I thank everyone.
As for me, I'm kinda siding with the believers that this came out to help re-elect him next year. I'm not any more or less happier now that he's dead if he wasn't already because he's been fairly irrelevant for the past few years. My solace comes from the fact that nearly my entire family has served or are serving in the military and many of them are very happy right now so their happiness makes me happy.
http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/mon-may-2-2011-francis-fukuyama?xrs=synd_facebook (http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/mon-may-2-2011-francis-fukuyama?xrs=synd_facebook) whatever your opinion on the matter..this is just hilarious.
Anyone bothered by the thousands that took to the street for an excuse to get drunk?
There's not a greater show of disrespect for 9/11 and their families, then that. Real classy.
Quote from: Level-One on May 03, 2011, 04:56:27 PM
Anyone bothered by the thousands that took to the street for an excuse to get drunk?
There's not a greater show of disrespect for 9/11 and their families, then that. Real classy.
Completely bothered...much like I was bothered by what I saw on RAW and the end of Extreme Rules they showed. Just a sad state of affairs all around in that regard.
USA 1 - Osama 0?
Are they discounting his 3000?
The war has been won? No, it just got kicked up a gear...
Speaking of which...
From BBC News:
Al-Qaeda 'confirms Bin Laden's death
Al-Qaeda has confirmed the death of its leader, Osama Bin Laden, according to a statement attributed to the group and posted on jihadist internet forums.
The statement said his blood would not be "wasted" and al-Qaeda would continue to attack the US and its allies.
Bin Laden's death would be a "curse" for the US and urged an uprising in Pakistan, the statement added.
The militant was shot dead on Monday when US commandos stormed his compound in the Pakistani town of Abbottabad.
The covert raid was carried out without the prior knowledge of the Pakistani authorities, increasing tension between the two countries.
Several rallies were held in Pakistan on Friday in protest. The BBC's Syed Shoaib Hasan said thousands marched through central Karachi in the biggest such rally there in years. They chanted slogans praising Bin Laden - calling him a guardian of Islam.
The statement published on jihadist web forums, signed by "the general leadership" of al-Qaeda, said an audiotape would be released of Bin Laden speaking a week before his death.
"[His blood] will remain, with permission from Allah, the Almighty, a curse that chases the Americans and their agents, and goes after them inside and outside their countries," it warned.
Gordon Corera
Security correspondent, BBC News
The release of a statement from "the general leadership" of al-Qaeda may do something to undermine the conspiracy theories circulating in some quarters that Osama Bin Laden is not dead.
However, there will no doubt be some for whom even this will not be enough, who will argue it is not definitive proof.
The message is also a means for al-Qaeda to stress that it remains in business and is committed to continuing its former leader's work.
The US is attempting to exploit the death of Bin Laden to undermine the organisation. It is using intelligence retrieved from his compound to go after others, and trying to undermine the mythology surrounding the al-Qaeda leader to weaken the morale of his supporters.
The statement also opens the way for al-Qaeda to name a successor. Ayman al-Zawahiri is one possibility although he is believed to be a divisive figure.
"Their happiness will turn into sorrow, and their blood will be mixed with their tears. We call upon our Muslim people in Pakistan, on whose land Sheikh Osama was killed, to rise up and revolt.
"Before the sheikh passed from this world and before he could share with the Islamic nation in its joys over its revolutions in the face of the oppressors, he recorded a voice recording of congratulations and advice which we will publish soon, God willing."
Although US forces buried Bin Laden's body at sea, the statement warned the US that "multiple gates of evil" would be opened on them if they failed to hand over the corpse to his family. It incited Muslims to take action should the Americans mistreat the body or any of his captive family members.
It acknowledged the US was responsible for his death, and also noted that he had been killed by "treacherous infidel bullets".
The statement attracted a high number of online comments, all of which seemed to accept the death of Bin Laden as fact.
Correspondents say this contrasts starkly with the scepticism that followed President Obama's announcement on Monday of the al-Qaeda leader's death. The scepticism had led to calls for the US to release pictures of his corpse - a move resisted by President Obama.
White House spokesman Jay Carney said it was "aware" of the statement.
“We are quite aware of the potential for [militant] activityâ€
"What it does is acknowledge the obvious, which is that Osama Bin Laden was killed by US forces," he said.
"We are quite aware of the potential for [militant] activity and are highly vigilant on that matter for that reason."
The Afghan Taliban issued its own statement on Friday, saying the death of Bin Laden would give "new impetus to the current jihad".
"The sapling of jihad has always grown, blossomed and bore fruit through irrigation by pure blood," it added.
"The martyrdom of a martyr leads hundreds more to head to the field of martyrdom and sacrifice."
Earlier, Pakistani Islamist groups, led by the Jamaat-e-Islami, denounced the US military operation in Abbottabad as a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty.
They were also critical of Pakistan's government for allowing the commando operation to happen, although officials deny they were told.
Hundreds of people gathered in central Abbottabad following Friday prayers. They burned tyres, blocked a main road and shouted "down, down USA!" and "USA terrorist".
Our correspondent in Karachi said most groups taking part in rallies there were either banned by the Pakistani government or on a watch list for militant groups. Thousands took part but the rally remained largely peaceful, he adds.
Anti-American sentiment also appeared to be high at a similar protest in the south-western city of Quetta, the capital of Baluchistan province.
However, a BBC correspondent in Rawalpindi says the anti-US protest there was much smaller than expected with about 50 people turning up.
Meanwhile, reports from the US says documents found at the compound suggest Bin Laden was planning further attacks on the US, including on the 10th anniversary of 11 September 2001.
One plan was to target a US rail route, officials said, although no imminent threat was detected.
One of Bin Laden's wives being interrogated by Pakistani security officials said she had never left the upper floors of the compound the entire time she was there, believed to be about six years.
She and Bin Laden's other two wives were taken into custody following Monday's raid. Pakistani authorities are also holding eight or nine children who were found there.
LMFAO!
Of course that's not definitive proof. An anonymous source on an internet message board. Really? This same trick has been used countless times before: ''OSAMA LEAVES THREATENING MESSAGE ON MESSAGE BOARDS'' followed by disclaimers of them cannot confirming it's authenticy... but in the day in age where only headlines are read, that's all that's necessary. This is seriously what they're trying to back up all their ''terrorists are going to get you'' campeign the media has launched the day Osama ''died?'' I guess we need to give them a few more weeks when they can dress a few people up in turbins and fake another video.
You want to put this to rest, whitehouse? SHOW US THE FOOTAGE OF THE RAID. Real simple. I'm also not buying the load of bullshit on why they won't release his photo. The excuses I've heard are childish at best. I knew they wouldn't even when they were saying they were ''thinking'' about it. We'll probably get a photo a year or two when nobody is paying attention and this issue is no longer a issue...
They're covering something up.
(http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/00623/BIN_LADEN_OBAMA_623423f.jpg)
At the very worst they posed for this picture, at the very least they released it and ran with the medias lie until they were; BUSTED. A picture says a thousand words...
Okay, so the war is far from over; the terrorists will be attacking again to avenge Osama Bin Laden; and oh yeah, Obama does not get credit for killing Bin Laden because all he did was sign a piece of paper allowing the assault, a baboon could do as much. What got Osama Bin Laden was the resolve of the American people and a president that back in 2001 condemned the attacks and waged an all out war on terrorism. Also, the intelligence that gave us where he was staying came from Gitmo, the same place that Barack Obama wanted shut down after he took office. If he had gotten what he had wanted, we would probably still be looking for Osama Bin Laden in caves. There is no conspiracy here, he died in a raid last Sunday and can you really blame a red blooded American for just shooting the fucker and not really caring about the backlash; cause let's face it. The world can call it an assassination or a hit, but every American will sit here and go, hey, who cares, he's dead now and he deserved it.
Now Level One, call it a conspiracy all you want, but come back to reality dude. Every newspaper and media source in the world is coming out saying he's dead, even the Jihadist media. Chances are, he's dead. It would take untold amount of people to cause a global media lie, and trust me, the amount of people it would take to run what would be a classified media operation to basically get all the media groups in the world to say Osama is dead would make the operation itself not feasible. With that many people involved, some one would eventually spill the beans and the governments of the world know this. That's why they run on the philosophy of keeping as few people in the know as possible. If thousands of people are in the know, the operation would eventually fail. There is no cover up, there is no conspiracy, and Lee Harvey Oswald was the only shooter.
It must hellish stressful being as paranoid as you are L-1! I couldn't keep up all that angst, must be my old age.
Peace
Duckman
I should mention that isn't a dig. I just couldn't cope thinking the whole world was one big giant lie and everything that is reported or said, or thought, or broadcast is not true. I'd just hide under the bed covers all day.
Also if people didn't believe what happened at 9-11 happened as reported. And now don't believe Bin Laden is dead or died recently, or whatever it is people don't believe. How do you form an opinion on anything? Is everything a lie? Was the oil spill in gulf of Mexico real because there were pictures and eye witness accounts? Or was that anti oil company propaganda and clever CGI? Do you have to see it yourself live and in person to believe? Is there really an economic crises or is it just a way to increase oil prices to make up for the Gulf spill - that maybe didn't really happen? Did the last person who won American Idol really win it, or was the voting rigged? Is wikileaks real or a way to offset bad publicity about the wars?
What I'm getting at is with folks like L-1 and others who seem to refuse to believe the majority of reported news is where does it end?
At what point do you accept something as fact or do you constantly believe that nothing is true and massive global conspiracies are an every day thing?
The stress must be killing!
Peace
Duckman
QuoteNow Level One, call it a conspiracy all you want, but come back to reality dude. Every newspaper and media source in the world is coming out saying he's dead, even the Jihadist media. Chances are, he's dead. It would take untold amount of people to cause a global media lie, and trust me, the amount of people it would take to run what would be a classified media operation to basically get all the media groups in the world to say Osama is dead would make the operation itself not feasible. With that many people involved, some one would eventually spill the beans and the governments of the world know this. That's why they run on the philosophy of keeping as few people in the know as possible. If thousands of people are in the know, the operation would eventually fail. There is no cover up, there is no conspiracy, and Lee Harvey Oswald was the only shooter.
Umm, where did I say he isn't dead? No, he's dead. And likely has been dead for years.
I'm sorry to tell you that you have NO idea what you're talking about. You have no understanding of compartmentalization nor how the mainstream media works based on this post you've made. Where do you think the media has got this entire story from? Who do they ask questions?
Why is it that FOX News and CNN have the same exact talking points hours after the event?
Do I ''THINK'' FOX news and CNN collaborated with each-other before hand? Of course not. That's absurd. Are they basing their entire narrative of the U.S GOVERNMENT says happened? Yes. Along with every other mainstream media source out there and it's just as simple as that.
This bullocks about having to have thousands of news reporters running around being fed stories of the day being in on the conspiracy as well, is a played and ridiculous concept and I'm insulted you'd bring it up.
The US can and does keep secrets. They lie. They can cover things up. Get over it. I'm sick of hearing people say, ''why hasn't anyone come out about it and whistle blown'' and in the same breath watch people tear down, demonize or outright ignore those who do. Whistle-blowers? Ask Bradley Manning and Julian Assange how that's working out for them thus far. In a day in age where your punished for telling the truth under the guise of ''national security'' there's no need to wonder why people aren't jumping out left and right calling them out on this bullshit.
Can I PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt that they didn't kill Osama when they say they did? No, of course not. However, I see the hallmarks of a lie written all over this. From dumping his body in the sea, from releasing fake photos in the white-house, from releasing photo shopped pictures of Osama to the media knowing full well the picture was fake and then proceeding to not release the ''real ones'' and how about that footage of the raid? Furthermore, the fact that word has it he didn't resist and they were ordered to ''kill'' when he could have been captured... though alive, they could have gotten tons of information out of him as the leader of a terrorist group, we've all come to fear.
As for Sam...
I don't think everything is lie; I take everything as they come. Yes, there are people who believe the oil rig was blown on purpose; but I am not one of them. Yes, the event was real... and yes there was a cover up and dirty tricks played afterwards. A conspiracy by the government though? No, I don't think so. Obama did win the election. Presidents are irrevelant; both parties work for the same big bank intrests. My verdict isn't out on Wikileaks at this point.
I haven't even gotten into the pre-Osama terrorist hype that really wraps this entire thing being fraud up in a nice little bow.
''The world is much safer with one less bad guy....''
Apparently, not.
As for being paranoid? Not much. Everyone obesses over the terrorist blowing something up. I'm worried about the government staging something or standing down. It's not like I ride the bus or board a plane thinking it's going to happen, though. So, I'm less paranoid then your average American when it comes to this stuff, sorry to say.
This whole thing on terrorism real or fake is paranoia in itself. I'm not for losing my rights or having people stick their hands down my pants because of it, either.
Thing is if he didn't die last week...why release it then? Why not years ago as conspiracy theorist usually say he died? Its not even near the elections so Obama didn't gain anything . Osama Bin Laden was barely spoken of lately so there was no point of doing it now either if this was information that was being held for years. And if it happened years ago, why didn't Bush release it before his presidential term ended to at least exit looking somewhat good? or why didnt Obama release it during the peak of the economic crisis or health care debates as something to distract the people?
Okay Level One, yes, you can blind the US media by being the only ones with the information and trying to block them from getting to outside sources, but stopping the US media from getting to it's sources is like stopping a fat kid from getting to cake; and the US has no control over where the BBC gets their information; they have no control over where China, or Russia, or Iraq, or Afghanistan gets their information; and trust me, some one in the middle east would have known that Osama was dead soon after his death. That is simply a secret that can not be kept. We have no control, the CIA and the US Government can't keep terrorists silent. This isn't some television show where both sides are really good friends and they're just playing war for our entertainment and they sign a no disclosure agreement about not talking about what's happened until they're ready to release it. So like I was saying, it is simply too big to cover up and have a conspiracy; there are too many parts that can't be controlled.
Also, to address another issue, Osama would have never given us anything; he would die before giving us valuable information. He begged and pleaded for his life because he knew he'd go to Gitmo and once there, he'd stand a chance at escape. He's not stupid; if he were alive he knew that his followers would come after him. In Osama's case, he was too dangerous to be left alive.
Quote from: Gary on May 07, 2011, 01:15:54 PM
Thing is if he didn't die last week...why release it then? Why not years ago as conspiracy theorist usually say he died? Its not even near the elections so Obama didn't gain anything . Osama Bin Laden was barely spoken of lately so there was no point of doing it now either if this was information that was being held for years. And if it happened years ago, why didn't Bush release it before his presidential term ended to at least exit looking somewhat good? or why didnt Obama release it during the peak of the economic crisis or health care debates as something to distract the people?
Obama gained major support and will likely have no major democratic challengers with his move. As I said earlier; Obama could have also waited until the campaign to release his birth certificate which during the champaign would really hurt Trump or any other GOP puppet using the birth certificate as a platform--but yet, he did it now. Why? I don't know exactly why; but it makes sense on why this would come out now in addition to the BC (effectively burying that issue as well). Though something like this is BIGGER then Obama; this probably wasn't even the main reason.
As for why they said he was alive, simply for an excuse to remain in those countries for so long. You may not understand this point if you don't understand corporations, banks and special interests including war profiteers run government; but the last several presidents have merely passed the baton on to beat the american people over their heads to steal more money. Obama isn't much different then Bush on big issues including foreign policy, and it's a fact.
Why would Bush release that information for him to look good? His term was done, he has his book deal and the rest of his live to vacation; but if we want to go there rumour has it that he was going to play the ''killed Osama card'' in 2004 but several people blew the whistle. I still have to check this out myself, though.
I know of at least one person (Steve Pieczenik; involved with black ops, overthrows of foreign governments, etc) who claimed Osama was dead in 2001 and they would roll him out when it benefited the war on terror the most-- IN 2001!
I'm still doing research on this but I'm finding out Osama was very sick and couldn't have lived this long with the conditions he had--especially, being on the run.
And Jack, they aren't smart. This is why this entire thing is falling apart by it's seams.
QuoteOkay Level One, yes, you can blind the US media by being the only ones with the information and trying to block them from getting to outside sources, but stopping the US media from getting to it's sources is like stopping a fat kid from getting to cake; and the US has no control over where the BBC gets their information; they have no control over where China, or Russia, or Iraq, or Afghanistan gets their information; and trust me, some one in the middle east would have known that Osama was dead soon after his death. That is simply a secret that can not be kept. We have no control, the CIA and the US Government can't keep terrorists silent. This isn't some television show where both sides are really good friends and they're just playing war for our entertainment and they sign a no disclosure agreement about not talking about what's happened until they're ready to release it. So like I was saying, it is simply too big to cover up and have a conspiracy; there are too many parts that can't be controlled.
There you go again. Keep telling yourself that it's impossible because everyone and their mothers are involved, it just doesn't work that way and you've tried to say the same thing in the 9/11 talk we had sometime ago.
The media is a fucking joke and isn't interested in asking the right questions. They aren't interested in hearing about how Osama wasn't killed because that's not the official narrative. Are you aware that it's a business right? And that they know if they seriously start touting conspiracy theories no matter how legit; they lose readers and are less ''mainstream'' correct? BBC? They're in the same god-damn category. I'm sure tons of news will come out of it being bullshit from the Chinese and Russia overtime; just like 9/11--but they'll never really cover it here or they'll brush it off because they're foreign and it benefits them to ''lie'';
QuoteAlso, to address another issue, Osama would have never given us anything; he would die before giving us valuable information. He begged and pleaded for his life because he knew he'd go to Gitmo and once there, he'd stand a chance at escape. He's not stupid; if he were alive he knew that his followers would come after him. In Osama's case, he was too dangerous to be left alive.
I'm sorry, but you're literally talking out of your ass right now--or you're repeating what you probably heard on fox news, man. Yeah, sick man Osama wouldn't give us ANY information;
Question: Does torture work? Do you believe torture works and it's why we got Osama?
Back to it, how do you know that he wouldn't give us any information? Because the media has told you he is the ultimate Allah warrior here to rein terror on Americans and is devoted to his cause til' death? It's amazing how you just have a crystal ball when you need it the most, dude.
Break out of Gitmo? Who has broken out of Gitmo thus far? Please, enlighten me. I
His terrorist friends were going to break him out? So, let me get this straight. They're saying that getting Osama doesn't do anything on the war on terror (and thus it must continue) because Osama is just a figure head... yet Al-Q is going to go bat shit insane and start launching terror attacks immediately? Bake your cake and eat it too. Yum.
Aren't the terrorists going to attack because they killed Osama?
So basically, they're going to attack either way... but they would hit us harder if we caught him instead? Maybe nuke a city instead of blowing up a plane? I honestly don't know who comes up with this shit. This is essentially what we're saying here.
The REAL reason he wasn't captured in my opinion was simply because he died sometime in 2001. Otherwise, they would have grabbed him--tortured him, got or outright make up false information depending on which you prefer--and then kill him before he can go on trial where they'd actually have to provide PROOF that was behind the 9/11 attacks as well as have Osama's U.S government/CIA ties out in public.
You're one hypocrite L1. "Oh you don't know how so and so actually work" and you do? Are you a top level member of X corporation? Are you a high ranking government official?
The same things that you have been saying to discredit the news "they are just being fed bullshit to tell everyone" can be applied to where ever you get your information. Where do you get your info L1? Other conspiracy theorists? Where do they get their information? What makes what the government says automatically wrong and where you get your information automatically right?
You don't have any facts, you have second hand opinions from other sources. Is Osama dead? Fact. Was he killed this past week? Fact. It's very hypocritical to say "oh he died years ago" when you don't know that's true either. You know what makes conspiracy theories, theories? Because very little to no truth is backing it up. It's just theories that X amount of people want to be true for some odd reason. Everyone has an agenda. Just as the government will release the information they want to release, the naysayers have their own agenda too. I don't know where you get your information, but with as skeptical as you seem to be you should of all people be skeptical of those sources and those source's agenda.
Point is, you're being unfair with your accusations.
Quote from: T-Bonizzle on May 07, 2011, 04:48:07 PM
You're one hypocrite L1. "Oh you don't know how so and so actually work" and you do? Are you a top level member of X corporation? Are you a high ranking government official?
The same things that you have been saying to discredit the news "they are just being fed bullshit to tell everyone" can be applied to where ever you get your information. Where do you get your info L1? Other conspiracy theorists? Where do they get their information? What makes what the government says automatically wrong and where you get your information automatically right?
You don't have any facts, you have second hand opinions from other sources. Is Osama dead? Fact. Was he killed this past week? Fact. It's very hypocritical to say "oh he died years ago" when you don't know that's true either. You know what makes conspiracy theories, theories? Because very little to no truth is backing it up. It's just theories that X amount of people want to be true for some odd reason. Everyone has an agenda. Just as the government will release the information they want to release, the naysayers have their own agenda too. I don't know where you get your information, but with as skeptical as you seem to be you should of all people be skeptical of those sources and those source's agenda.
Point is, you're being unfair with your accusations.
My exact thoughts on this. How are your thoughts L-1 more true than ours who don't believe in the conspiracies you spout off? If you have facts put them up, if you don't then you are just as right as we are who actually believe that Osama was killed last week.
QuoteYou're one hypocrite L1. "Oh you don't know how so and so actually work" and you do? Are you a top level member of X corporation? Are you a high ranking government official?
I don't need to work for the Media to have a basic understanding on how they work. Are you disputing the fact that main-stream outlets have their own niches of readers they need to cater to; and conspiracy theories aren't one of them?
QuoteThe same things that you have been saying to discredit the news "they are just being fed bullshit to tell everyone" can be applied to where ever you get your information. Where do you get your info L1? Other conspiracy theorists? Where do they get their information? What makes what the government says automatically wrong and where you get your information automatically right?
You're right. Unfortunately, very little of my information is from ''conspiracy'' websites. Actually, all of these inconsistances I have pointed out come within the mainstream media themselves. Independent media is usually good at pointing out these inconsistances leading readers to mainstream articles as a source to back up any claims which makes it a bit easier on me.
The ''official'' narrative about what occured has changed several times. If the truth is the truth, it doesn't need a handful of amendments done to a story, afterwards--this occurring AFTER inconsistencies are found, of course.
90% of what I wrote in this thread is based on what I perceive to be bullshit and why.
QuoteYou don't have any facts, you have second hand opinions from other sources. Is Osama dead? Fact. Was he killed this past week? Fact. It's very hypocritical to say "oh he died years ago" when you don't know that's true either. You know what makes conspiracy theories, theories? Because very little to no truth is backing it up. It's just theories that X amount of people want to be true for some odd reason. Everyone has an agenda. Just as the government will release the information they want to release, the naysayers have their own agenda too. I don't know where you get your information, but with as skeptical as you seem to be you should of all people be skeptical of those sources and those source's agenda.
Facts? They changed their official story, FACT. They won't release any photos, FACT. They haven't released the raid video (does it even exist?), FACT. They put out a fake situation room photo to mislead viewers, FACT. Several media ran with fake photos of Osama dead, FACT. Proceed to blame said photos on ''crazy conspiracy theorists'', FACT. They said they dumped his body in the ocean, FACT. They've been hyping the ''new terrorists'' and subsequent attacks hours after this news was announced, FACT.
The only conspiracy theory is if they killed him or not; all of the above are attributes to why I think they didn't and I haven't even touched any real conspiracy bullet points, yet and doubt I'll even bother.
You don't know what happened anymore then you claim I don't. The only difference is the ''officials'' said it happened and you're going to take their word, fine with me. I'm not. Government lies. Conspiracies exists in every walk of life and is not confined to serial killers and made for television movies. Conspiracy theories are conspiracy theories because the government says so. The U.S Government said torture was a conspiracy. The ''Bilderberg'' group was a conspiracy, now admitted exists--downplayed and all. The fucking MAFIA was a conspiracy for god sakes.
They exist.
QuotePoint is, you're being unfair with your accusations.
You don't need to agree with me. In fact, I'm not even trying to convince anyone--I'm just explaining my point of view since several people seem to take an issue with it.
So, do I believe everything is a conspiracy? No. Do you believe NOTHING is a conspiracy? How's that for a question...
See, the thing is L-1, a lot of the things you're pointing to and trying to use to show us that it's a conspiracy is actually more the reason to believe it's not. The changing of the story and all that jazz in which you say shows that something is fishy is actually less fishy than what you would lead us to believe. If Osama had been dead for sometime and Obama decided to release the information to gain some points in the polls, then why wasn't the story squared away before any information was released? I am sorry, but I am pretty sure if I am smart enough to think up at least squaring away the story before releasing it, I am sure that Obama and the rest are smart enough as well. Also, when the release first happened and the media started getting calls, you probably had a few different people making the calls and each media outlet probably heard something slightly different depending on who was telling it.
Also, that points out another thing to prove that it occurred last Sunday. Even though the President might have watched live satellite video of the raid, he wouldn't have had all the information yet because Seal Team Six hadn't been debriefed yet. Once they were debriefed and how events actually went down got to the White House, we had a more consistent story. You scream conspiracy, I call it normal because that's the way it works. Also, you say us having no video of the raid is cause to believe this is a conspiracy. Umm, quick question. The President has a video that's high resolution and shot from outer space; now sure, movies tend to show you these really high resolution videos from a satellite, but no one actually knows what our capabilities are. Can you actually make out who some one is, or is it fuzzy? Could these satellites be a threat to our right to privacy? So okay, let's say people around the world believe our satellite video is as high resolution as the movies show; what if it isn't and they release, then everyone knows what are capabilities are. Or even worse, say they are as high resolution or even better. What if they could watch me pick my nose and be able to tell what color the booger is? Oh my god, they can invade my privacy, these satellites need to go offline. Yeah, I am sorry, they'll catch more hell for releasing a raid video which is highly classified because of the technology behind it, then they will for not releasing it.
Secondly, I don't need to see a picture of Osama, but they said it will be eventually released. So there you have it, and okay, there were fake death photos which got blamed on conspiracy theorists. You don't like that because you are a conspiracy theorist and blame it on the government. How about blaming it on the 16 year old kid with way too much time on his hand who probably made them and posted them and emailed them around as a joke. Also, what is the point of the government releasing them and then calling them fake? You say to discredit any conspiracy theorist who tries to uncover the truth, but the simple fact of the matter is that's just paranoia talking. You see, that's the beauty of conspiracy theories this early on and at a time where there is a lot of information available. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever and conspiracy theorists act as if random things point to an obvious conspiracy and call us stupid for not believing them.
Now, here is the beauty of it all. And you can call this bullshit and what not, but I have a theory of my own. Conspiracy theorist started around the same time as people became highly involved in wanting to question everything. My theory is that one person asked a question that couldn't be answered at the time, which some one thought was obviously a lie, and so the first conspiracy began. While yes it is good to question some things, you need to learn when to have faith and believe that some things are too big to cover up. Yes, we have tried covering things up in other places outside of the US, but it has always failed because too many people are involved and they can't be kept quiet unless you kill them, which brings in others and so on and so forth. Thing is, the only cover ups that ever work are the ones that happen here and the people in the know can be limited.
Also, another key point. Reporters love a story, and if it's the truth, a reporter will go after it. So yes, if they have a foreign source saying hey, Osama has been dead for years, this is bullshit; then trust me, that reporter is going to get all the proof they need to back it up, because if they can prove a cover up of this size happened, and they publish it, they'll win all sorts of prizes and become the most sought after reporter in all the world. That's the type of story a reporter can make their career off of, and trust me, reporters have a tendency of not caring about what is in the best interest of others. They jump at trying to find the truth and think about the consequences later. You want to spend your time creating conspiracy theories, go look at the Catholic Church, there is a bunch there to be had.
Quote from: Level-One on May 07, 2011, 08:38:50 PM
Independent media is usually good at pointing out these inconsistances leading readers to mainstream articles as a source to back up any claims which makes it a bit easier on me.
I'm in a different country. We're getting the message that Osama is dead, and recent. Al-Qaeda has confirmed it. When the enemy is saying it, and you still don't believe it, then you simply can't be convinced.
Quote from: Level-One on May 07, 2011, 08:38:50 PM
The ''official'' narrative about what occured has changed several times. If the truth is the truth, it doesn't need a handful of amendments done to a story, afterwards--this occurring AFTER inconsistencies are found, of course.
Actually, as has already been said, it tends to lend to the situation being true, rather than made up, as more information comes to light. Want to know how people are lying? A good indicator is that the story is too perfect, too rehearsed. That's a proven psychological characteristic we have. And yes, I'm qualified to talk about psychology.
Quote from: Level-One on May 07, 2011, 08:38:50 PM
Facts? They changed their official story, FACT. They won't release any photos, FACT. They haven't released the raid video (does it even exist?), FACT. They put out a fake situation room photo to mislead viewers, FACT. Several media ran with fake photos of Osama dead, FACT. Proceed to blame said photos on ''crazy conspiracy theorists'', FACT. They said they dumped his body in the ocean, FACT. They've been hyping the ''new terrorists'' and subsequent attacks hours after this news was announced, FACT.
Yet they've provided reasoning for all of it. You can choose not to believe that, but their reasoning is generally consistent with trying not to incite any more backlash than what the death is already likely to do. It's a delicate political issue, so they're unlikely to appease everybody. Hell, I disagree with a lot of it myself, as I think he should've been taken alive so he can stand trial. Just because I don't like it, doesn't mean they're lying to me though.
Oh, and also, Bush could really have done with the popularity boost. If he had gotten Osama, then there would've been less (though perhaps not significantly less) opposition to the war as one of the main goals would've been accomplished when nothing else seems to be. That would've made his job a little easier. Also, considering his popularity was astonishingly low, and a common conversation when his term ended was whether or not he was one of the worst presidents in history, he could DEFINITELY have used the popularity points.
I'll admit that there may be holes in the story. It's not my government, so I'd like to think I've got a good chance (maybe just a comparatively better chance) at getting a pretty fair understanding of what's going on, though I'm also cynical enough to not take everything at face value. The thing is, no matter how many holes there are in the US government's story, there's a hell of a lot more in yours though. Occam's razor, man. The conspiracy is just too convoluted to be taken seriously with the information that we have.
QuoteAlso, that points out another thing to prove that it occurred last Sunday. Even though the President might have watched live satellite video of the raid, he wouldn't have had all the information yet because Seal Team Six hadn't been debriefed yet. Once they were debriefed and how events actually went down got to the White House, we had a more consistent story. You scream conspiracy, I call it normal because that's the way it works. Also, you say us having no video of the raid is cause to believe this is a conspiracy. Umm, quick question. The President has a video that's high resolution and shot from outer space; now sure, movies tend to show you these really high resolution videos from a satellite, but no one actually knows what our capabilities are. Can you actually make out who some one is, or is it fuzzy? Could these satellites be a threat to our right to privacy? So okay, let's say people around the world believe our satellite video is as high resolution as the movies show; what if it isn't and they release, then everyone knows what are capabilities are. Or even worse, say they are as high resolution or even better. What if they could watch me pick my nose and be able to tell what color the booger is? Oh my god, they can invade my privacy, these satellites need to go offline. Yeah, I am sorry, they'll catch more hell for releasing a raid video which is highly classified because of the technology behind it, then they will for not releasing it.
Obama never watched the raid live. The picture that I posted of them ''watching it'' wasn't them actually watching it. This was a lie. Hilary Clinton has stated along the lines that ''she doesn't know what she was watching'' she was just covering her face because of ''allergies''; the feed wasn't ''working''.
This satalite bunk your pulling out of you hat is a bunch of nonsense. They would have had cameras mounted on their helmets. The technology they ''would'' be using is already made public. Is there really a need to just make shit up to explain away every inconsistency in this bullshit story?
QuoteSecondly, I don't need to see a picture of Osama, but they said it will be eventually released. So there you have it, and okay, there were fake death photos which got blamed on conspiracy theorists. You don't like that because you are a conspiracy theorist and blame it on the government. How about blaming it on the 16 year old kid with way too much time on his hand who probably made them and posted them and emailed them around as a joke. Also, what is the point of the government releasing them and then calling them fake? You say to discredit any conspiracy theorist who tries to uncover the truth, but the simple fact of the matter is that's just paranoia talking. You see, that's the beauty of conspiracy theories this early on and at a time where there is a lot of information available. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever and conspiracy theorists act as if random things point to an obvious conspiracy and call us stupid for not believing them.
I love the entire ''We're thinking about releasing the photo'' as to make the doubters and believers, believe that it actually exists. And then they don't release it, followed by ''we might release it later'' to again, make everyone who doubts it think about it actually existing in the back of their minds. If they were serious about it, they would have just made the decision; and came out with, ''we're not going to show you the photo'' instead of playing the mind game, mini-op. Of course, maybe this wasn't done on purpose... government loves us. Don't forget to vote!
Anyways, you probably didn't even see the fake photo several media outlets ran with. You missed the entire point on why the photo would be put out but really, forget it. They said it would ''eventually'' be released? Why not now? Oh, I know... because they'll wait until nobody is paying attention, release something that IMO would be photo shopped, and let the somewhat political concious discuss and in fight with each-other on internet message boards for yet another distraction while the banks pillage and rob, everyone. The latter half of that is merely the effect (not a conspiracy by the government) but they DO plan to release it when things have died down and nobody really cares.
I also didn't say the government released that photo. I said the media picked it up (it's been on the internet already for about 3 years prior) and ran it in their stories. THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT BELIEVE IT IS REAL. That was the point. People don't have attention spans any more. Most people (or a ''large'') portion of people just read headlines, or pay attention to a story when it first comes out--they aren't following this like me or you are a week after the fact. The media knows this.
QuoteNow, here is the beauty of it all. And you can call this bullshit and what not, but I have a theory of my own. Conspiracy theorist started around the same time as people became highly involved in wanting to question everything. My theory is that one person asked a question that couldn't be answered at the time, which some one thought was obviously a lie, and so the first conspiracy began. While yes it is good to question some things, you need to learn when to have faith and believe that some things are too big to cover up. Yes, we have tried covering things up in other places outside of the US, but it has always failed because too many people are involved and they can't be kept quiet unless you kill them, which brings in others and so on and so forth. Thing is, the only cover ups that ever work are the ones that happen here and the people in the know can be limited.
The Manhattan Project had around 150, 000 involved and it was basically kept secret amongst the population--or is that a conspiracy too?
And FYI, they're whistle-blowers all over. You just don't bother to listen. Most ''commit suicide'' or end up in car ''accidents'' while others are intimidated and threatened into silence. Death bed confessions make sense but those people are just trying to make a ''legacy'' of themselves. And if by god they do speak out, it doesn't matter if they WORKED for the government or directly in the said conspiracy, they're just looking for ''fame'' or ''money'', right? I've seen this over and over which is why I don't even know why I am even bothering to respond to this none sense, sigh.
Whistleblower on (1 week in) Osama: Steve Piezcenik.
QuoteAlso, another key point. Reporters love a story, and if it's the truth, a reporter will go after it. So yes, if they have a foreign source saying hey, Osama has been dead for years, this is bullshit; then trust me, that reporter is going to get all the proof they need to back it up, because if they can prove a cover up of this size happened, and they publish it, they'll win all sorts of prizes and become the most sought after reporter in all the world. That's the type of story a reporter can make their career off of, and trust me, reporters have a tendency of not caring about what is in the best interest of others. They jump at trying to find the truth and think about the consequences later. You want to spend your time creating conspiracy theories, go look at the Catholic Church, there is a bunch there to be had.
I don't look to ''create'' conspiracies. I'm not that smart.
Though do have a good point. I'm sure you'll get a few reporters on this truth nugget. However, they'll likely be independent reporters looped in with the conspiracy ''holocaust never happened'' and ''UFO in my backyard'' fodder group and written off, per usual. A majority reporters these days, are there to tow the company and thus government line and it just that simple. You'll never see a guy like Anderson Cooper call conspiracy, even if it planned to bite him in the ass.
Kieran...
QuoteI'm in a different country. We're getting the message that Osama is dead, and recent. Al-Qaeda has confirmed it. When the enemy is saying it, and you still don't believe it, then you simply can't be convinced.
Confirmed it? Are you referring to the anonymous website forum post, Sam has posted in here? If it is, no. That isn't proof. You don't know who Al-Qaeda is, as do I.
QuoteActually, as has already been said, it tends to lend to the situation being true, rather than made up, as more information comes to light. Want to know how people are lying? A good indicator is that the story is too perfect, too rehearsed. That's a proven psychological characteristic we have. And yes, I'm qualified to talk about psychology.
Nope. When a large portion of people are doubting the
ENTIRE STORY in saying it
never happened; it could be just as reasonable that they purposefully put out smaller lies within the official narrative to make the large story itself, seem legit. ''Well, okay they OSAMA didn't use his wife as a shield and there wasn't a fire fight... but we still killed him!'' And don't tell me the doubters aren't on the white houses mind... they're freaking out about it.
Dr. Steve Piezcenik is far more then qualified in PsyOps and actually has agreed with what has been stated above as to what they are actually doing.
And before you call CONSPIRACY, if it's a proven psychological fact and the government is ''too smart'' to get their own story wrong if it was a set up, wouldn't it be possible that this is in fact what is happening?
Lastly, the story is real simple in my mind... it never happened. It really is one of the more simpler conspiracies that could have existed. Everything else is lies, piled on top of lies, explanations that make little sense, contradictions and a desperate attempt by the media/government to provide evidence, all in which, isn't evidence.
Some random ass post on a message board isn't evidence (considering they've done this before with Osama leaving messages on message boards, lol) Video of the compound itself, isn't evidence--nobody is saying that the compound never existed. DNA isn't evidence; because the claim is that he's ''bin'' dead already.
Evidence is taking his body to the US soil (despite what the terrorist fear mongers say)
Evidence is releasing photos (despite the what the terrorist fear mongers say)
Evidence is releasing video (despite what the terrorist fear mongers say)
Evidence is explaining how he could possibly live as long as he did with the health conditions he had...
I'm sure there is more that I just can't bother to think up at this point.
I think the images of thousands of American's celebrating in the streets in the Death of Osama, as well as actively bombing the shit of the middle east killing millions is enough to get the ''terrorists'' riled up--providing the evidence to prove he's dead doesn't hurt America, it helps America because maybe then they could restore some faith in those who doubt them. These types of explanations are BULLSHIT and I'm sorry if you don't agree.
And yes, some people WONT buy it, even if all four bullet points were/was provided + more... but most will. Me included.
So, you can keep believing what the government tells you about their own conspiracy they may or may not be involved in; I'll be waiting for the actual proof, not bullshit chat room logs or bums sat in-front of old Osama footage watching himself on TV touted as proof. It's a fucking joke!
L-1 I just want to clear up one thing.. Because I did read that article.
That article you're citing about Hiliary Clinton and her allergies?
She states word for word, she does not know what she was watching
at that milisecond Not that the feed wasn't working.
Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110505/pl_yblog_theticket/hillary-clinton-suggests-allergies-responsible-for-her-appearance-in-situation-room-photo
QuoteThe photo above has already attained the status of journalistic history: It shows the Obama administration's senior national security team monitoring the mission targeting Osama bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad. In the shot, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton sits with a hand clasped over her mouth as the raid unfolds in real time.
But Clinton suggested Thursday that her seeming emotional reaction to the raid's progress may not come from concern or anticipation; instead, it may have to do with her allergies.
"I am somewhat sheepishly concerned that it was my preventing one of my early spring allergic coughs," she told reporters in Rome. "So, it may have no great meaning whatsoever."
She added that she can't shed any additional light on just what she and her fellow national security advisers were witnessing at just that moment.
"I have no idea what any of us were looking at at that particular millisecond," she said.
The AP notes that there's been plenty of ongoing speculation about the context for the image. However, it doesn't seem like much evidence will emerge to clear these questions up anytime soon: White House officials say that supplying that context in greater detail might compromise intelligence efforts and capabilities.
Perhaps there are some questionable things out there, however, you need to be fair and represent the journalism as it is, and in this case the Associated Press, and state what they have published, and not what has been 'heard' or 'mis-interpreted'
Just my two cents and now I bow out of the conversation.
Thanks, Cindy. Yes, that was the article. I doing my best at the time to paraphrase having read it a few days ago; the feed not working came from another discussion earlier I had with someone else for why they US couldn't show the us all the footage, so I probably should have left that bit out. It's not a conspiracy, I swear. :D
I don't get the whole ''I don't know what I saw in that millisecond bit'' though. Why does that matter? I don't quite get why a split second is relevant to watching footage itself.
So, basically if this happened like they said it did and the photo wasn't in fact staged--the footage DOES exists. I guess, I'll be proven wrong when it get's released then and we can all see it for ourselves. Either way, I'm looking forward to it-- because at this point, I'm not sold.
I think it's fairly obvious that George W. Bush flew remote controlled airplanes into the WTC to take down the towers on 9/11 after putting all the passengers in Gitmo to distract the nation from operatives working in Hawaii to plant documentation showing that a Kenyan who's mother was an American Citizen was really born in America so that after he was raised as a Muslim and took the oath of office on the Koran that he could then pretend to kill the guy that we pretended masterminded the whole thing from the beginning 10 years after he supposedly did it and almost 2 years before a major election where if this happened closer (much like Terror Levels being raised close to 2004's election) it would help him but at this point does nothing, other than to distract us from the fact that Obama is pushing through a law to make us all citizens of the New World Order.
Google it man, it MUST be true, right?
Quote from: Level-One on May 08, 2011, 04:00:01 PM
And don't tell me the doubters aren't on the white houses mind... they're freaking out about it.
Oh, so that explains why they continue to refuse to display the photos, because they're so scared of the doubters, right? Oh wait, here's your response:
There are no photos.
Dude, even if Bin Laden died years ago as is your particular claim, there would've been photos taken THEN. They could release them now. "What about time stamps?" Isn't the Government in your head so all-powerful and evil that they'd be able to manipulate that relatively easily?
Quote from: Level-One on May 08, 2011, 04:00:01 PM
Dr. Steve Piezcenik is far more then qualified in PsyOps and actually has agreed with what has been stated above as to what they are actually doing.
So you'll believe anything that Piezcenik says, but not what Obama, or Hillary Clinton, or (insert politician here who is also far more qualified to judge, and probably has a lot more info on the subject than Piezcenik). It sounds to me like you just pick and choose who you listen to, as long as it fits your argument.
Quote from: Level-One on May 08, 2011, 04:00:01 PM
And before you call CONSPIRACY, if it's a proven psychological fact and the government is ''too smart'' to get their own story wrong if it was a set up, wouldn't it be possible that this is in fact what is happening?
Or, alternatively, we could just go with the method that makes the fewer assumptions, because you know... that's how we've made all the technological advances we have in the world.
Are there gaps in the knowledge we have? Absolutely. Would I like things cleared up more? Yes. Hell, I'd like a body too. But the info we have leads itself to both of these conclusions (as well as others, should we talk about Obama being a reptile here too?):
A happened, therefore B happened.
Or, B happened because of C, but we'll make it look like it was because of A
The assumptions in the second aren't needed,
Quote from: Level-One on May 08, 2011, 04:00:01 PM
Evidence is taking his body to the US soil (despite what the terrorist fear mongers say)
Evidence is releasing photos (despite the what the terrorist fear mongers say)
Evidence is releasing video (despite what the terrorist fear mongers say)
Evidence is explaining how he could possibly live as long as he did with the health conditions he had...
And yes, some people WONT buy it, even if all four bullet points were/was provided + more... but most will. Me included.
No, I don't think you will. You'll just call it forged all because they didn't produce it right away. Just like what's happened with Obama's birth certificate.
First in regards to the article cindy posted; here's why I added the ''didn't watch it live'' bit. It wasn't in the same article but the situation is basically directly related to it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html)
So, again going by this article:
- Obama missed at least 20-25 minutes of the raid live
- Obama didn't see Osama Bin Laden be killed
So, it doesn't prove that the photo is staged or anything but that's where that comes from. Also, I'm wondering if they ever covered this tidbit on Mainstream media (television) or if Obama even addressed why he didn't note the blackout that apparently occurred in the compound.
QuoteOh, so that explains why they continue to refuse to display the photos, because they're so scared of the doubters, right? Oh wait, here's your response:
There are no photos.
Dude, even if Bin Laden died years ago as is your particular claim, there would've been photos taken THEN. They could release them now. "What about time stamps?" Isn't the Government in your head so all-powerful and evil that they'd be able to manipulate that relatively easily?
Sure, but they'd have to shoot an already dead man (who probably died of natural causes) in the head first after unfreezing him. I'm not quite sure how plausible that is.
It also means they would have planned all these details out before he died in 2001 under this assumption; which I never said occurred.
How about he just died naturally in hospital and has been buried in an unmarked grave? Let's go with that one! It's not like they need photos, any ways. You don't think the government knows the majority eats this shit up? Hypothetically speaking, let's say what happened happened... the government CAN get away with these types of lies on the grandeur scale because most people aren't paying attention. Some are stupid, most are just really busy and don't have time working 8+ hours a day... I don't blame them; but let's not pretend this isn't a reality.
It's not like when this news came out; the majority of people were ''Oh, they killed Osama. Let's wait for some details'' it was ''THEY KILLED OSAMA, GRAB OUR FLAGS AND LET'S PARTY IN THE STREETS'';
QuoteSo you'll believe anything that Piezcenik says, but not what Obama, or Hillary Clinton, or (insert politician here who is also far more qualified to judge, and probably has a lot more info on the subject than Piezcenik). It sounds to me like you just pick and choose who you listen to, as long as it fits your argument.
Why would I believe the conspirators of the conspiracy theory?
Considering he no longer holds a high powered government position; he's sorta, you know... at liberty to talk? Those involved will likely never reveal themselves because if there is a conspiracy, it's a crime.
QuoteOr, alternatively, we could just go with the method that makes the fewer assumptions, because you know... that's how we've made all the technological advances we have in the world.
Are there gaps in the knowledge we have? Absolutely. Would I like things cleared up more? Yes. Hell, I'd like a body too. But the info we have leads itself to both of these conclusions (as well as others, should we talk about Obama being a reptile here too?):
MMM, reptile talk. How about we talk about no planes on 9/11, the holocaust never happening, goat sucking chupacabras, UFO and alien invasions while we're at it. Anyone whoever questions anything, obviously believes in the reptile shape shifting peoples!
QuoteA happened, therefore B happened.
Or, B happened because of C, but we'll make it look like it was because of A
The assumptions in the second aren't needed,
No, I don't think you will. You'll just call it forged all because they didn't produce it right away. Just like what's happened with Obama's birth certificate.
So, in other words... we're done here. At some point, the straw men and personal attacks gotta' come out--at least we made it through a page before it happened.
I never called the Obama's BC forged. Though, tons of photo shoppers do! I'm not even a birther, LOL.
Triple B, hooking up with the big fat assist! You know, if it's all so CRAZY--you may want to just let it speak for itself rather then attempting to make it sound ''crazier'' then it already ''is'';
Your post reminds me of an article I read by some fucking cunt. His first talking point about this conspiracy, was about people asking if they can ''carry shampoo on planes now'' that we got Osama... as if that's what people are complaining about. Of course, he fails to mention people are actually asking if TSA still needs to stick their hands down their pants and run them through body scanners... but hey, that sounds far more reasonable then the shampoo thing!
With that, I'm done with this for at least a day. Too much writing.
Quote from: Level-One on May 08, 2011, 06:59:07 PM
First in regards to the article cindy posted; here's why I added the ''didn't watch it live'' bit. It wasn't in the same article but the situation is basically directly related to it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8493391/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-Blackout-during-raid-on-bin-Laden-compound.html)
So, again going by this article:
- Obama missed at least 20-25 minutes of the raid live
- Obama didn't see Osama Bin Laden be killed
So, it doesn't prove that the photo is staged or anything but that's where that comes from. Also, I'm wondering if they ever covered this tidbit on Mainstream media (television) or if Obama even addressed why he didn't note the blackout that apparently occurred in the compound.
Sure, but they'd have to shoot an already dead man (who probably died of natural causes) in the head first after unfreezing him. I'm not quite sure how plausible that is.
It also means they would have planned all these details out before he died in 2001 under this assumption; which I never said occurred.
How about he just died naturally in hospital and has been buried in an unmarked grave? Let's go with that one! It's not like they need photos, any ways. You don't think the government knows the majority eats this shit up? Hypothetically speaking, let's say what happened happened... the government CAN get away with these types of lies on the grandeur scale because most people aren't paying attention. Some are stupid, most are just really busy and don't have time working 8+ hours a day... I don't blame them; but let's not pretend this isn't a reality.
It's not like when this news came out; the majority of people were ''Oh, they killed Osama. Let's wait for some details'' it was ''THEY KILLED OSAMA, GRAB OUR FLAGS AND LET'S PARTY IN THE STREETS'';
Why would I believe the conspirators of the conspiracy theory?
Considering he no longer holds a high powered government position; he's sorta, you know... at liberty to talk? Those involved will likely never reveal themselves because if there is a conspiracy, it's a crime.
MMM, reptile talk. How about we talk about no planes on 9/11, the holocaust never happening, goat sucking chupacabras, UFO and alien invasions while we're at it. Anyone whoever questions anything, obviously believes in the reptile shape shifting peoples!
So, in other words... we're done here. At some point, the straw men and personal attacks gotta' come out--at least we made it through a page before it happened.
I never called the Obama's BC forged. Though, tons of photo shoppers do! I'm not even a birther, LOL.
Triple B, hooking up with the big fat assist! You know, if it's all so CRAZY--you may want to just let it speak for itself rather then attempting to make it sound ''crazier'' then it already ''is'';
Your post reminds me of an article I read by some fucking cunt. His first talking point about this conspiracy, was about people asking if they can ''carry shampoo on planes now'' that we got Osama... as if that's what people are complaining about. Of course, he fails to mention people are actually asking if TSA still needs to stick their hands down their pants and run them through body scanners... but hey, that sounds far more reasonable then the shampoo thing!
With that, I'm done with this for at least a day. Too much writing.
TNA is just on the verge of breaking out...oh wait...wrong thread
Of course I used a straw man argument, because based on what we know so far, it seems just as ludicrous an assumption.
You're perfectly within reason to question details the Government provides. That's pretty much the point of a democracy, where the people try to hold their leaders responsible for their actions. And yeah, it's a dick move on their behalf to not provide some of the evidence. I really don't like the whole 'dropping the body in the ocean' thing. That's some bullshit right there.
What you've done goes beyond questioning the details, and instead substituting even less substantiated evidence (or even no evidence at all) to make your particular claim.
To break away from the straw man, and look at your argument, there appears to be two parts.
A: It didn't happen the way they said it did.
B: Therefore it happened like this....
A doesn't necessitate B, but A is the only evidence you've actually provided for B. A simple statement of "they're hiding something from us" I can buy, but you leap to conclusions based on nothing.
Level One... just because you're batshit crazy and sleep in tin foil sheets doesn't mean you need to bust out the fat jokes.
Honestly why is it so fucking hard to believe that he was killed last week? Why does everyone feel the need to make a conspiracy out of ANYTHING the goverment does, sometimes things are what they are.